Poetics and Poetry Discussion

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  • Gulsher John (6/2/2014 4:41:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Dear Readers:
    The below short passage is a simple
    rephrasing of Mr. Jefferson Carton and of Mr.John Ashbury about Contemporary prosody/poetry.
    (a/p my understanding) ...................
    it's gonna be more productive for wannabes, ESLs, and art leaners if they take it seriously.

    Dears, Poetry and especially the modern, is about the EFFECTS- sound and visual, at least -besides meaning.
    So afore pursuing it:
    ]First read good poetry but don't imitate.
    ]use simple, plain(colloquial?) but not bombastic rhetoric and dictions)
    ] be focused on rhythm (Form, music, pattern) than rhyme (for sound effects)
    ]Avoid sappiness and irrelevant Artfulness.
    ]Prefer good and fresh metaphors analogies, similes that create images but surprising and appropriate. (for visual effects)
    ]Divorce all the clunky stinky expressions. (clichés)
    ] Do focus on meaning rather than message.(don't seek or insert any allegorical meaning in concrete statement)
    ]No need for biographical background and emotionalism.
    ]paint your words rather than write.
    ] Do not bore people with your Confessions, Preaching and Philosophy.(let reader to praise the poem itself)
    ]Extra pruning will help your expression more inspiring

    my posted poems(if they are) are sort of crappy, so please don't marry up them with this passage.

    Replies for this message:
    • Alexander Rizzo (6/2/2014 8:37:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      did you write these yourself, john?if so, you're not practicing what you preach, homeboy.

    • Jefferson Carter (6/2/2014 7:21:00 PM) Post reply

      John, I read your " principles" and think they're just not specific enough to be helpful to any fledgling poets. If you could give examples of each principle, that might clarify. But as I ... more

  • Peter Stavropoulos (6/1/2014 6:16:00 PM) Post reply | Read 5 replies

    “Any darn fool can make something complex; it takes a genius to make something simple." - Pete Seeger

    Replies for this message:
    • Peter Stavropoulos (6/5/2014 5:14:00 AM) Post reply

      Alex, I'm not talking about triteness, Hallmark poetry or Jingle writers, I'm talking about reaching greater depth and, thereby, originality through simplicity. Here's another quote from a famous poet ... more

    • Alexander Rizzo (6/5/2014 12:29:00 AM) Post reply

      that doesnt justify triteness peter. sorry.

    • Peter Stavropoulos (6/4/2014 7:23:00 PM) Post reply

      “The art of art, the glory of expression and the sunshine of the light of letters, is simplicity.” -Walt Whitman

    • Alexander Rizzo (6/2/2014 8:17:00 PM) Post reply

      peter, that seeger quote doesn't really ... more

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  • Alexander Rizzo (6/1/2014 3:46:00 PM) Post reply

    you know, everyone knows palmer and carter debate a lot, due to different styles, but carter shows himself to be a critic who is just about the poetry and nothing else. he echoes my feelings here. it should always be about just poetry, not who we feel needs to be 'cut down to size'. stop the personal silliness. thank you mr carter for trying to keep the focus on whats important.

    Jefferson Carter (6/1/2014 11: 31: 00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies
    Lamont, one of your better efforts. It slips off into ugly Lamontisms (the bowels of nowhere, bullets that divide us) but for the most part retains its dignity and avoids the sappiness inherent in the subject matter. There are enough capable lines here that if you did some serious pruning, you'd end with up with a nice poem.

  • Gulsher John (6/1/2014 1:15:00 PM) Post reply


    At dusk
    when twilight falls
    and dyes the sky
    with stygian view, and turns
    the blue and white into
    an Orange hue;
    till the darkness declares,
    the night's feasts and fears.
    (surely a teasing play of Nature,
    where all feelings and fears of man
    are figured like in the theatre)


    'This often travels me back- in time
    when we used to sit or thrashing around
    (in such state of frenzy)
    sweetly we hymned
    some loving rhymes.
    (like a tickling breeze thats caressing reddened cheeks)
    But don't know how and when,
    we got our hearts cracked and coiled;
    and had masked our smiles.
    (who cut that string and
    let our passion spoiled)


    Now that
    all those revelries had gone
    that proved our flirting wrong,
    (in these yawning hours,
    sitting by the fire alone
    and staring at the dying embers)
    i find myself, only talk to myself,
    and i wish
    to resurrect the past
    and wed again (my heart insane)
    to those 'listless' sights and strains'...
    (what else an old man can do
    on such cold, misty eve.)

  • Lamont Palmer (5/31/2014 7:52:00 PM) Post reply | Read 16 replies


    Ask me what part of Arkansas from which this flower sprung.
    (A place where corpses took it upon themselves to teach) .
    If her strength lies in the dirt of Stamps, it lies
    Wildly, from an unpredictable birth, to a roguish
    Breeze moving over a place of awful hurts.
    It wasn't the mystery, but the resilience of the move
    That taught Jim Beam and Jim Crow to coexist,
    That showed how night madness can free a soul.

    And in between the times of stalwart trees, growing in size
    To produce just enough inviting shade,
    I will recall the effervescence of some blues-tinged music,
    Some dirge, turned into fantastic resolve to steady
    Itself, not letting that sadness undermine miracles.
    Lovers were put in their proper places; the rich,
    The poor, the baffled ones unable to duly understand
    How the stage leads to pulpits; how Europe leads to Memphis.

    Recitation becomes its own furious life,
    Shaping the cage and the escaping song,
    Roaming to the bowels of nowhere, to
    Where everyone has a home, occasionally, in winter.
    There, we can smile lovingly in the faces
    Of martyrs to make everything all better, even
    Bullets that divide us, yesterday and today.
    What the word can do amazes the flesh, leaving
    The mind to dwell on outhouse beginnings, or mist
    Thick enough to hide the sleight of hand of God.

    Replies for this message:
    • Alexander Rizzo (6/1/2014 3:38:00 PM) Post reply

      one thing I can say about carter - he's always fair-minded when he likes something. its all about the poetry with him. carter pretty much echoed my sentiments on palmer's poem. with some cutting, a ve ... more

    • Jefferson Carter (6/1/2014 11:31:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

      Lamont, one of your better efforts. It slips off into ugly Lamontisms (the bowels of nowhere, bullets that divide us) but for the most part retains its dignity and avoids the sappiness inherent in t ... more

    • Lamont Palmer (5/31/2014 11:47:00 PM) Post reply

      Thanks Rizzo. Ignore the morons here. If I listened to 'people' like them, I'd never have published a single poem. Its nice that you got to see Maya in person. -LP

    • Alexander Rizzo (5/31/2014 10:19:00 PM) Post reply

      dude, lob off that last stanza which to ... more

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  • Jefferson Carter (5/30/2014 1:49:00 PM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

    A little poetic kerfluffle is happening on Facebook, a conflict between those who adore Angelou and those who think her poetry is mediocre (among whom, of course, I count myself) . Here's one comment:

    Marc Hofstadter: I've devoted my entire life to poetry- writing it, reading it, teaching it. I've published five books of it. It is my passion. It is my educated opinion that there were about 20 major poets in Angelou's generation, all greater than she: Creeley, Levertov, Rich, Schuyler, O'Hara, Koch, Ashbery, Duncan, Ginsberg, Snyder, , Bly, James Wright, Hugo, Clampitt, Merwin, Wilbur, Kinnell and several others. These were/are not pretentious or elitist; they were complex, intelligent and yet moving figures in the tradition of American and English verse. One does not understand one of their verses without putting in something of an effort, much as it involves effort to understand Shakespeare or Milton or Keats. Maya Angelou operated on a much more superficial level. I do not mean to deny her importance as a role model or as an influence on the general culture. But it galls me to see other, more major poets totally ignored by that culture while she is lionized.

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    • Dan Reynolds (5/30/2014 5:22:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      I don't understand why an intelligent person would find it difficult to understand the rules of popularity. Watch any one of the many, current TV talent competitions. It only takes a few viewings to d ... more

    • Jim Hogg (5/30/2014 3:47:00 PM) Post reply

      He surely meant to write " 20 major American poets" ....

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  • Dan Reynolds (5/29/2014 6:14:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    What a wonderful day. The PH management have been gracious enough to insert video adverts between the titles and the bodies of our poems. So much more interesting now.

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  • Gajanan Mishra (5/29/2014 5:58:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    I salute Maya Angelou, the true poet of our time.

    Replies for this message:
    • Vivek Mishra (6/30/2014 3:55:00 AM) Post reply

      And I salute you, what a collection, of the vast what I could read, some I found to be really engaging, :)

    • Gulsher John (5/31/2014 3:35:00 AM) Post reply

      JC, you know this man-ganjana- has penned more than 10 thousand " POEM" ... just imagine... swooooooooonnnnn

    • Jefferson Carter (5/30/2014 6:18:00 PM) Post reply

      Maybe your time, Gajanan, but not MINE! !

  • Adam M. Snow (5/28/2014 11:49:00 AM) Post reply | Read 6 replies

    I am sad to say, we lost one of our great American poets today. Maya Angelou died today, she was 86. She truly was one of the greats. RIP Maya Angelou. Let this topic be used to discuss her and pay respect to one of the great American poets. She will truly be missed. Feel free to share your favorite Maya Angelou poems and any thing you would like to say about her.

    Replies for this message:
    • Alexander Rizzo (5/29/2014 8:32:00 PM) Post reply

      saw her in san fran years ago. amazing performer. i wonder if she knew she was at the top of the lists on this site

    • Sherrie Kolb Cassel (5/29/2014 1:12:00 AM) Post reply

      I had the privilege of hearing her read and speak at UCSD about 15 years ago. She accomplished a lot in her lifetime. Very impressive. Her inaugural poem sucked, but she has much in her oeuvre that wa ... more

    • Adam M. Snow (5/28/2014 1:44:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

      I know why the Caged Bird Sing The free bird leaps on the back of the wind and floats downstream till the current ends and dips his wings in the orange sun rays and dares to claim the sky. ... more

    • Frank Ovid (5/28/2014 1:11:00 PM) Post reply

      Nice Adam. I agree. RIP Maya.

    • Gulsher John (5/28/2014 12:32:00 PM) Post reply

      may her soul rest in peace forever... am ... more

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  • Gulsher John (5/28/2014 11:00:00 AM) Post reply

    interview of John Ashbery (Conti.)


    Is the issue of meaning or message something that is uppermost in your mind when you write?


    Meaning yes, but message no. I think my poems mean what they say, and whatever might be implicit within a particular passage, but there is no message, nothing I want to tell the world particularly except what I am thinking when I am writing. Many critics tend to want to see an allegorical meaning in every concrete statement, and if we just choose a line at random, I think we will find this isn't the way it works.... I can't seem to find anything that's an example of what I mean. Well, let's take this... no. Everything I look at does seem to mean something other than what is being said, all of a sudden. Ah, here—the beginning of “Daffy Duck in Hollywood, ” for instance, where all these strange objects avalanche into the poem. I meant them to be there for themselves, and not for some hidden meaning. Rumford's Baking Powder (by the way, it's actually Rumford and not Rumford's Baking Powder. I knew that, but preferred the sound of my version—I don't usually do that) , a celluloid earring, Speedy Gonzales— they are just the things that I selected to be exhibited in the poem at that point. In fact, there is a line here, “The allegory comes unsnarled too soon, ” that might be my observation of poetry and my poetry in particular. The allegory coming unsnarled meaning that the various things that make it up are dissolving into a poetic statement, and that is something I feel is both happening and I don't want to happen. And, as so often, two opposing forces are working to cancel each other out. “Coming unsnarled” is probably a good thing, but “too soon” isn't.

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