Poetics and Poetry Discussion
(11/24/2013 12:00:00 PM)
XRH! -(greek for WTF!)
(11/24/2013 11:36:00 AM)
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i think minnie Gie will get mail for ann Gie-ann Gie u thanked me for courage to coming back to forum-really u should thanking slacker or acker for attack palmieri and shook his cloaks off him to show him for what he be[delusion man] and then safe for u-Replies for this message:
(11/24/2013 11:54:00 AM)
thank u-greek no show red face but i think i flushing-i choose slacker side in fight-small guy one year writing fight bully man and make bully man stutter-enuf time for u sneak in-you must thanking sl ... more
(11/24/2013 11:43:00 AM)
u must make big thank u for slacker[palmieri name for acker]-no stop huggin you married and " happy'- so you say
(11/24/2013 11:40:00 AM)
ok-i stop for free hug-there-ok now answer question-no, no hug again-answer question-no, no hug
- Nikos Antonopoulos (11/24/2013 11:54:00 AM) Post reply
Sherrie Kolb Cassel
(11/24/2013 10:31:00 AM)
So nice to see all this poetry this a.m. I will come back and comment on each one...when I return home....
By Miriam Vermilya
On a slab of Jurassic shale, an ovate
body, legs fine as eyelashes,
the mayfly's precise signature,
Now its descendents, in a tumult
of mating, roil the air on Koerner's
sluggish creek below the hill
where the Ebenezer Baptist church,
its doors agape, declines daily
into dust and rubble.
Beyond the church, the graveyard
encroached by nightshade
and nettle, its stones listing
or broken or gone, a few bearing
words now scarcely visible:
Eliza, Beloved Wife... In Perpetual....
A million years from now the stricken
stones will be scoured clean
and ephemerids will rise each spring
to dance above the clouded waters.
(11/24/2013 9:28:00 AM)
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Just posted this and then it vanished...why?..ok.. A poem for the Americans on this cruise, multiple personalitied or otherwise... might be a bit scary for some ultra modernists because of a peculiar characteristic, but it may cause even JC to raise a very slight smile: By Daniel Brown, Dream after Dream, as a reply:
(11/24/2013 5:59:00 AM)
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" Boy-Soldier" by Michael Longley
The spear-point pierces his tender neck.
His armour clatters as he hits the ground.
Blood soaks his hair, bonny as the Graces',
Braids held in place by gold and silver bands.
Think of a smallholder who rears a sapling
In a beauty spot a burn burbles through
(You can hear its music close to your home)
Milky blossoms quivering in the breeze.
A spring blizzard blows in from nowhere
And uproots it, laying its branches out.
Thus Euphorbus, the son of Pantheus,
A boy-soldier – the London Scottish, say,
The Inniskillings, the Duke of Wellington's –
Was killed and despoiled by Menelaus.Replies for this message:
(11/24/2013 11:32:00 AM)
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Lamont, hope you don't mind me quoting the letter that inspired Longley to write this. A tender recollection. Longley works hard to break through the armour this life soon coats us in, to strike our ... more
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- Jim Hogg (11/24/2013 11:32:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies
Suman Kumar Das
(11/24/2013 12:37:00 AM)
Assurance of Heaven
Kismet will kiss you,
Hope will hug you.
Hunger, thirst, pain
All ordeal will be overcome.
Also time will take
Pride in your prize.
While sleeping, as blanket
Bliss will warm you.
Love will come
To make you hear lullaby.
Oh! Children of heaven,
Do not despair;
Rather keep on dreaming
Without losing trust in self.
So hang on trying,
With heart and soul.
Suman Kumar Das
(11/23/2013 7:57:00 PM)
Well, it appears I may have upset one of the Forum contributors.
I received this mail from admin:
• Nov 23
• Nikos Antonopoulos AKA Lamont Palmer AKA Antonio Salieri AKA Sherrie NaziBride AKA Angie AKA Susan Rainer
This message is sent to you to notify you that Sherrie KolbCassel and Angie and Susan are very unhappy American women. They blaming you and other greeks for being such great that no one comparing. Please go away from here.
P.S. Please dont publish this -between us- Nikos, we just love you here in our department. We hire today special chihuawawa dog(well from street) but train to see on screen 3 or four or five letter bad word. When (chico) find word he growl then bark and we send serious letter. But one slimy guy name is lamonte palmieri he sneak letters like$ % ^ & * with four letter word to throw chico from knowing. but chico very smart. he doesnt bark but he growl very angry. now always when name lamonte palmieri come over screen chico growl very angry(but growl not enough for bad letter) and we all(three of us, small department) come to see and name is you know who. We ask chico you like palmieri and he shake head and growl but long growl. Let me only say we love you nikos. keep up- others dry- you wet funny.
(11/23/2013 7:37:00 PM)
i bored one day and i check check there-then i find button call FLUSH-so i press and i press and very much-sound is whirl-first bs talking many sound nothing saying-then i press FLUSH and presto whirl whoosh then quiet-
(11/23/2013 7:20:00 PM)
i am very very sorry but the more i look here the more slacker poem MEDIOCRITIES make sense-look he post one message look people Plamieri-Nazibride-&-many others feed like little nibble fish-his poem describe you-all of you-look down \ / there -america have so much money?wow-i fish & feed family-
Mike Acker Male,59, Canada (11/23/2013 1: 27: 00 PM)
I thought I was done with you, but no he is back for more. Someone who has been writing for thirty(30) years simply will not, if he is any good, write: " Driving his tongue, or liver or kidney from city to city" . To cite just one of many, many examples of terrible writing. What, are you dense I mean what is wrong with you?
This is a fact. You work as an orderly in a psych ward. I believe you clean toilets and so on. Is that a bad thing of course not. It is a decent job. But when you have the delusion that you are one of the greatest living poets then the whole picture becomes very disturbed.
Many of you who have been here since 2005 or earlier are truly pathetic. I can understand being here, spending maybe a year or two, learning from JC (whose posts go back to 2004) then getting published if you have any talent and move on to better and bigger things in life. Most of you, Palmer specifically have been at this for over 30 years. What, are you all a bit insane?This is not about poetry this is about useless human beings with nothing really important to say. Otherwise the world would have banged on your door begging for your rare gift of poetry and wisdom. But since you lack it you are doomed like wingless birds to roam the " lower" grounds of the poetry world.
Truly pathetic people. Lets start with this bozo who thought the chicken yard was his this Salieri-like charterer that goes on here by Lamont Palmer or according to an ex-lover NIkos. I wonder how many more talented younger poets he discouraged with his big mouth. OK i thought he talks big and JC is having discussions with him so maybe there is something there. Then you look closely at his work and you find garbage in relationship to 30 years of thinking, reading and writing poetry. Wow. I don't think I have to repeat the truly bizarre lines as they are now part of everyone's classical: " How not to write." Tongue is not poetic. No more is needed about this character.
Then we go to your neurotic, not my words but what the general PH public has referred to her as. I will stay with facts here. On many occasions she refers to this mysterious and according to her extremely well-educated husband poet who is rarely on PH due to his upper echelon standing. Again who knows, you basically believe what someone reasonably sane is saying. Then with just one example, this as Nikos(who apparently is Lamot Plamer according to " Angie" (whoever she is)) discovers that this husband is not a big shot university professor but a small town high school teacher(phys ed i believe) . On top of that without fist reviewing this bizarre love poem SHerrie(if thats really who she is) post it on PH. Rule number one: never mix hund, hoelle, liebe(the German words alone) with anything to do with poetry, love or eroticism. This guy's " love" poem has absolutely every possible infraction you could think of and more. Then we are forced to imagine this heavily accented(I assume) , Nazi-like character streaking through our mind chocolate dipped running towards this Sherrie(or whoever she is) . I have to say her poetry, if this what this Nazi's mind can come up with, is very good at times compare to this poetry " genius" .
Then you have this " Angie" character. One poem of hers I liked is called the Felling. Pretty good writing, But beyond that I am guessing in a new relationship, in which the guy lets her be herself, well that's novel. Letting a woman be herself. He must be a good catch. Then we find out below that she is a mess inside having lived with some alcoholic with that first nut the Lamont " poet of poets' after her swearing on the bible, that he loves her basically and she should forgive him! I saw a picture of her and her I guess husband. All I really saw were 2 mousy characters basically living mousy lives. Who the hell knows.
There are at least another I would say 20 other characters here that need mention, but I would be writing all day. I will mention this fancy character who writes lousy rose poetry from New York I guess with 8 letter in just the initials who has to slip in a conversation that he had to pay $3000 just for transporting some kittens so that we can do the math and figure out his wealth. Jeez just state that you are a billionaire for God's sake. He is another bizarre one.8 letters just for your initials.
Stavros was lampooning my use of words ending with " ic" . But is there any other appropriate description than pathetic?Here is one that ends differently, losers. They are all over the hill, from a creative point of view.
Ok, now we get to your classical PH long term resident, JC. He is the only whose situation makes sense. Absolute sense. He studied the subject, has a PHd in the subject(poetry) something the uneducated Palmer abhors(like the cross or the cherished bible to a vampire) , taught creative writing(which includes poetry) comes on here(retired) to genuinely help those who want to improve and work towards writing great poetry. Gives advise as it should be given in a creative field: as honestly as possible. He has been kind enough to review my writings, edit many, tear apart many others in his JC way, encourage good writing and guide me as an educated individual can to what I be reading as a minimum. For him, I am grateful and will always attribute any skills I maybe be fortunate enough to develop.
So what happens daily is we have to witness this second or even third rate bozo called Palmer go at it for days with JC. As you find out later he is full of hot air. His work is garbage. You read JC's and it is as he tries to preach and then some. So I had had it with this chicken yard bully and incompetent Stevens-Merrill-poet wannabe and decided to do what I have to shut him up not so much for me but to make sure that new people coming to learn and move on can do so without this jerk's influence.
This will be the of last of my contact with the incompetent, " driving my tongue around the world" , Lamont Palmer.
As to the rest of you read Mediocrities. It captured perfectly, the human experience in not just this forum but also the thousands worldwide.
LOOK AT THE DATES, BELOW even back then they are still tutoring Palmer on how to write......dense is dense
Michael Shepherd (5/19/2005 5: 27: 00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
Lamont, I assume you're not a teacher of poetry; they have to engage with students at their own level. If you're going to be so dismissive, I think you owe it to us to explain your criteria. What is 'music' in poetry to you?
It seems to me from my superficial reading, that American poetry is doing exactly what you condemn - becoming more like the definition that is now commonly given to free verse - 'prose with enhanced consciousness'. You clearly still hear the music. But if rhyme, and lyric, and the metaphysical with its soaring ecstasies, are all put out of the ballpark, what's left?I would say, the 'music' of prose. I'm currently reading Kooser's 'Local Wonders' which is entirely 'prose' yet so beautiful in its writing that every few lines could be half a poem. Don't the prose writer and the poet meet in this 'music'?
The Greek origin of the word is in thinking and contemplating- as is the origin of the word 'mystic'. If I read a poem which comes from the heart, and from contemplation of its theme, and whose words are chosen with a 'poetic' discrimination not to jar with its presentation (I agree with JC about those two words in James Mills' poem which 'disappointed' me more than just jarred) - and a poem which most of all, if it's descriptive, makes me feel I am right there with the writer - than for me there is something between being called 'music' and 'not unmusic'...
A master like Auden can write a lyric which is deeply serious as well as being amusing, and musical, such as 'Tell Me About Love'. I wonder if what we define as 'music' isn't ultimately the sound of the poet's very self, which we hear or don't hear. I wouldn't myself, on that score, dismiss either Jerry or Jimmy as being without music. Nor is Bukowski, in a poem like 'A Certain Smile' which sears my heart, without his own music in his 'best' work.
So where does that 'music' rest?Over to you!
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Poetry Hound (5/19/2005 11: 10: 00 AM) Post reply
I think defining the 'music' of a free verse poem is elusive. You can point to things like use of alliterations or a pattern of accented and unaccented syllables. But ultimately it's hard to break dow... more
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Sherrie Kolb (11/23/2013 6: 23: 00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
You had the time and the psychosis to launch an amateur and a stalking-like " investigation" into some of our lives?Yikes. That is truly frightening, " Mike" .
Lamont is an " orderly" in a mental institution (that does not surprise me at all) ?Of course, there is no shame in that. It's an honest day's work for an honest wage. Bukowski was a mailperson, a drunk, and a bit mental himself, so Lamont is in good company with Buk, mental patients, and apparently with you. Two pansies from the same stem...in a matter of speaking.
Thanks for the hearty guffaw....
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Lamont Palmer (11/23/2013 7: 06: 00 PM) Post reply
Sherrie, don't believe everything some obvious whack job says here. He's probably cobbling together bits of info from online bios. If I was an orderly I'd be proud of it, but I am not. Acker is wrong... more
Lamont Palmer (11/23/2013 2: 44: 00 PM) Post reply
I do miss ole Shep. Nice to see his words on the forum. We had lively debates. He admired my poetry greatly and I miss his honest remarks. -LP
Date & Time: 6/5/2005 5: 13: 00 AM Remove this comment
Poem: 1286921 - 1 -Rain, Isolation, Self-Analysis Member: Michael Shepherd Comment: I agree entirely with Andrew. Curiously, I felt that TSEliot would admire this for its confessional subsumed in the detached observation by the eye of wisdom. And I understand now what you mean by 'music', Lamont - here,4-7 stresses in a line, with iambics as default foot. And the similes and metaphors arise naturally and colour the drawing, so to speak. A model of a mature poem, if I may say so... | Delete this message
Rest in peace, my friend.-LP
Scotty Dogg (11/23/2013 2: 20: 00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
I can imagine you on stage reciting this, Hamlet style, with right hand over heart, and left hand extended out towards the audience. A crease is in your brow and snarl is on your lips. Emote young man, emote!
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Sherrie Kolb (11/23/2013 3: 06: 00 PM) Post reply
And if you're prone to insomnia, get front row tickets, and ditch that Ambien....this stuff will put you out faster than any pharmaceutical assistance.
Sherrie Kolb (11/23/2013 2: 16: 00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
Are you developing carpal tunnel from all that hand lotion, oops, I mean MOTION, " Mike" ?(And by extension, your " mini me" ;) ...don't forget to wash your hands, boys.
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Angie G (11/23/2013 2: 28: 00 PM) Post reply
Jim Hogg (11/23/2013 1: 54: 00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies
Thanks for that Mike. You don't know me. I'm just ordinary, like most of the others who post here from time to time. Nearly all of us don't have soaring ambitions, and most of us have a rough idea of our limitations... I am just a scribbler for example, and I don't think Angie thinks she's Sexton, Plath or Bishop, and Lamont Palmer doesn't think he's the next Stevens, Merrill or Lowell... but we do have opinions we exchange from time to time...and from the collision of opinion we all gain a little now and again.
Poetry isn't a science. That may seem insultingly obvious, but it sometimes needs saying... The music, the poetic, the intensity, the evocativeness, whatever it is that appeals to you in poetry - for it will be many different things for all of us, and differ for each us from time to time - isn't open to a scientific analysis that sets certain qualities above others, because we are all different, and because we are talking about matters that rarely break free of the emotional dimension - if that's even possible. This is pretty widely accepted and has been for centuries despite the endless warring that has marked the evolution of poetry/literature. And the views you adduce as evidence of LP's deficiencies are actually no more than simply opposing views. They are not proof of anything. They're no more valuable in the great scheme of things than JC's views, about whose work we all have different opinions. There are no facts when it comes to assessing the qualities of different styles of poetry. The closest we can get to facts, is in discussion of formal elements within a poem and their contribution or lack of it to its success or otherwise - in our view - but even then we weight them according to personal and mainly unfathomable preference.
However, you have gone beyond arguing for a particular point of view; you've launched into personal abuse, first of Lamont Palmer and then of many others here, none of whom you know beyond their writings, and most of whom have written nothing about you at all, with your views demonstrating a serious lack of contextual understanding. I'd much rather be civil to those whose opinions are different and from whom I can learn from time to time, but you've overstepped the mark in your diatribe. You've made most of us out to be something quite other than we are (the straw man approach) in order that you could launch your personal attacks on those fabricated constructs.
You've mistaken the people here and you've badly mistaken the nature of the subject that your purporting to discuss... If 'tongue' doesn't work for you.. that's as much as you can say. It doesn't work for you.. You can't speak for anyone else. Your view is your view alone.. when you fully understand that very simple thing then you might be able to offer something a little bit more valuable to the ongoing discussion - even if emotions do run high occasionally. Just because you think something is bizarre or wrong or poor in a poem doesn't make it a bad poem or that phrase, word or line or whatever unacceptable. It's only a bad or unacceptable in your view. It takes a little more than that to make it a fact. JC and LP and most of the others in here have at the least a grudging respect for each other based on their knowledge of the subject matter and each other's position. I don't see any reason in your writing why you should consider yourself above that.
There will be typos.. apologies in advance.
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Jim Hogg (11/23/2013 2: 19: 00 PM) Post reply
... damn.. " you're purporting" .. aye Angie.... sometimes it's hard to tell I admit.. off to bed this time...
Angie G (11/23/2013 2: 04: 00 PM) Post reply
How dare you, Mr. Hogg. I am of course not Plath, or Sexton, or Bishop...I am MILLAY! hugs and thanks for the voice of reason. *tweet, tweet*
Sherrie Kolb Cassel
(11/23/2013 6:25:00 PM)
Today is my adorable and adoring husband's 59th birthday. He is on the third night of directing his high school play (I attended last night and this is his best work with the kids so far) and his adorable students threw him a surprise birthday party. It was so lovely and he was quite surprised. How nice is that?
Please join me in that timeless piece of musical gold:
Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you,
happy birthday dear Behehn, happy birthday
Now, I shall return to reading Martha Stewart's, " How to Not Be Arrested for Insider Trading" - and " How to Create the Perfect Christmas Wreath that is Not Only Beautiful, but Edible too" - just love those two-for-the-price-of-one book sales!
Pacquiao vs. Rios - woot! woot!