Poetics and Poetry Discussion

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  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (8/12/2005 6:20:00 PM) Post reply | Read 5 replies
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    My wife says we should all go for a retreat together in some New England woods, and rent a writer's cottage.
    Wait minute...
    By a lake, she says...
    & some wood.
    What say?

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  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/12/2005 3:40:00 PM) Post reply

    I'm with Mahnaz. There's a world of difference between saying that someone is a 'bad' poet (which tells you more about the one saying it than the one said about) and saying that a poem is a 'bad' poem. Poets can change; poems can't. Sometimes (!) I write what I expect will be a 'bad' poem, partly out of the urge to write something rather than nothing, and partly in the hope that something will emerge in the writing which is unplanned; and this usually teaches me something. I did this the other day, felt rather ashamed of it, then next morning it had a certain interest... even got an interested remark...but panned or praised, I wouldn't have been satisfied with it. Perhaps the difference between 'bad' poem and unsuccessful poem is between a pretentious attempt to 'manufacture' a poem, and a well-intentioned one that doesn't come off. That sort of poem is worth consideration.
    Point I'm making: discussion of a poem is usually interesting and useful, discussion of a poet usually not...

  • Rookie Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (8/12/2005 2:54:00 PM) Post reply

    Lamont, Ive posted a new poem, right down your alley I think. Its a confessional poem, your favorite. I though Id do a Lamont critique first to save the effort of doing one yourself. This piece is anecdotal, prosey, has no music. Its not POETRY. LOL Lamont. Yrs, Snob

  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (8/12/2005 1:29:00 PM) Post reply

    Now, does everybody know the one about the writer who goes in his (could be her) office for 4 hours in the morning, comes back out at noon to get a sandwhich from the fridge?
    His daughter asks, 'What did you do this morning? '
    He says, 'I put in a comma.'
    He goes back into his office for 4 more hours. When he comes out, his daughter asks, 'What did you do this afternoon? '
    He says, 'I took it out.'

  • Rookie Mary Nagy (8/12/2005 12:08:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    If we are trying to keep away from the personal attacks and only comment on the poetry it shouldn't be that difficult. If you really think the poet has no talent and you just HAVE to let them know that's how you feel, why can't you simply explain why you feel that way? ? If you find the poem confusing....tell them you feel it's confusing. If you find a poem having no flow to it...just tell them the flow was hard to find or follow.....whatever. Come on, is it really that hard to let somebody know they may be lacking in an area without saying they have no talent or they are just a lousy writer. It's pretty easy to find SOMETHING positive about almost every poem here. And, maybe you can just realize not everyone wants their flaws pointed out by the others here. Some people just post their poems to 'SHARE' their thoughts and feelings with others. Sadly, this may be the only 'interaction' with others that certain poets get to be a part of. It would be nice if it could be a positive experience for them.

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    • Rookie Poetry Hound (8/12/2005 5:11:00 PM) Post reply

      Either it's an astonishing admission or it's yet another case of the pot and the kettle.

    • Rookie Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/12/2005 5:07:00 PM) Post reply

      Right, Mary. I sometimes get the impression from the techtelmechtel on the forum that some who (deep down) know they are not only writing mostly Dreck but even Scheissdreck, will resort to ad hominem ... more

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  • Rookie - 7 Points Max Reif (8/12/2005 8:57:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Some people perceive fun where other people perceive abuse and inappropriateness. It's all due to our family backgrounds and our adaptations to them, I guess.

    The atmosphere to me resembles 'Mad Max at Thunderdome' sometimes.

    But every computer discussion group seems to have all the roles we have here. I've even seen the archetypes caricatured and satirized in a great article. Wish I knew its URL.

    Just human nature for there to be no general agreement about what civil behavior is.

    Collette's the one who has to interface with a complaining public, because whatever we think, this isn't a private discussion, it's a fishbowl. So she has to do what she has to do. I personally don't mind.

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  • Rookie - 150 Points Poetry Hound (8/12/2005 8:27:00 AM) Post reply

    I like what Shep said a little while ago. I think it bears repeating:

    Michael Shepherd (8/12/2005 6: 31: 00 AM) Post reply

    This site seems to be going through what we're going through in Britain right now - free speech at all costs v. inflammatory righteous language v. 'please Teach it wasn't me and anyway s(he) started it'... what a load of hypocritical crap.

    Everyone knows what keeps a vigorous discussion group going (AND not scaring off would-be joiners) - argue over the poems, the language, and the poetry, with as much heat as you like -just dropppp the name-calling and ad hominem.
    'Oh it's all in good fun...' Not that I've noticed, Buster...

  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (8/12/2005 6:44:00 AM) Post reply

    Who would want to join a 'conversation' (see above rubric) like this Forum, after reading this page of playground antics?

  • Rookie - 0 Points Collette Parniere (8/12/2005 2:42:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    ********** Mr. Carter, as I have said many times, criticism – even harsh criticism – is fine. Disagreement with each other is fine. In fact, it is healthy. The problem is with name-calling, personal insults, and attacks on one another’s character. These are not acceptable. You and a few others may have thick skins, but judging from the complaints we receive, most people do not prefer an atmosphere poisoned by attacks and incivility. Collette. **********

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    • Rookie - 0 Points Collette Parniere (8/12/2005 3:09:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      ********** Is this really so difficult to understand? Mr. Carter, please do not call Mr. Nerhlich names, including “Nerdlick, ” and Mr. Nehlich, you de-legitimized your complaint by adding in this i ... more

    • Rookie - 0 Points Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/12/2005 2:47:00 AM) Post reply

      Collette, a typical example is taking place while we speak. I do object to Carter calling me Nerdlick which he has just done. Childish is correct and it is obvious that stronger measures may be needed ... more

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  • Rookie - 0 Points Collette Parniere (8/11/2005 6:34:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    ********** I have just removed a series of rude comments and personal insults by Herbert Nehrlich, Sherrie Gonzales-Kolb, Poetry Hound, Poetry Snob, and one or two others. This childish behavior needs to stop. You do not need to join in to every disagreement and inflame it. You do not need to have the last word. Please excercise some self control. Thank you. Collette. **********

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    • Rookie - 0 Points Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (8/12/2005 2:35:00 AM) Post reply

      Collette, its not childish. Its how artists and wannabe artists with strong opinions act. Dont emasculate the forum, please! Abrasive is better than boring. Snob

    • Rookie - 0 Points t. h. ashbury (8/11/2005 10:19:00 PM) Post reply

      collette, there is an artistic integrity requirement that cannot sustain endless kindness. do you have any suggestions for how we might comply with your requirements and preserve any excuse for a ... more

    • Rookie - 0 Points Herbert Nehrlich1 (8/11/2005 9:25:00 PM) Post reply

      I noticed that a comment by a lady from Austria was removed. It was a factual critique of a poem written by J Carter. There was nothing inflammatory in it. Are we now going fully down the path of 'no ... more

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