Poetics and Poetry Discussion
(11/20/2013 11:26:00 PM)
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Mike and Lamont, leave me out of your flame war. It's silly. You're wasting energy putting each other down; neither of you will " win, " and just think of all the words you're wasting too, words that could be put to better use in a poem. During the Great PH Wars, I spent hours trashing first Herbert Neirlich (sp?) though he and I became friends later on, and I spent even more time flaming Trade Martin, whom I called Terd. I now regret all that waste and nastiness. It's not good for your soul or your art.
(11/20/2013 11:16:00 PM)
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All babble that comes out of your mouth. Show ONE 1 critique from anyone credible. You can't produce one lousy critique. Little BOY I hope you've learned your lesson. Don't ever open your mouth again on this forum unless you produce one poem worthy of 30 THIRTY years of reading writing poetry. I l looked and couldn't find anything that justifies your grandiose notion of yourself. What I found are lines like " DRIVING MY TONGUE FROM CITY TO CITY" . Are you aware of how bad this is. Follow what I am asking for below and all this is over. I would never call anyone an imbecile, meaning someone who lacks the ability to comprehend a basic and simple fact, but you are getting very close to that description.
OK, you win just by posting one(1, just one!) lousy little critique by someone of any importance in the literary field. I will even shut up if you can have JC vouch for you as being a good poet who produces unique, inspiring and original material worthy of a good poet. We know you have no critique from anyone qualified so go with JC. If he will vouch for you(30 years of teaching, PHd in English literature from Arizona State University(excellent University) then we are done. And just have him cite one specific poem as the example of your good and inspiring poetry. What I am trying to say to you is that not only are you not that great but it seems the world agrees with me. Some guy you wrote a poem for does not qualify, little BOY. Where do you come off being so delusional. You are not going to intimidate anyone on PH any longer. Do you get that?Replies for this message:
(11/21/2013 9:45:00 AM)
Slacker is trying to pull you in JC because he can't do the 'job' himself. When you know your attacks are failing, you try to 'recruit' others. I never mentioned your name, because I don't need to. -L ... more
(11/20/2013 11:28:00 PM)
Mike, it was the University of Arizona in Tucson! AND don't try to pull me into this silly flame war with Lamont. You're both wasting energy better used for writing poetry. Please.
- Lamont Palmer (11/21/2013 9:45:00 AM) Post reply
(11/20/2013 9:56:00 PM)
OK, you win just by posting one(1, just one!) lousy little critique by someone of any importance in the literary field. I will even shut up if you can have JC vouch for you as being a good poet who produces unique, inspiring and original material worthy of a good poet. We know you have no critique from anyone qualified so go with JC. If he will vouch for you(30 years of teaching, PHd in English literature from Arizona State University(excellent University) then we are done. And just have him cite one specific poem as the example of your good and inspiring poetry. What I am trying to say to you is that not only are you not that great but it seems the world agrees with me. Some guy you wrote a poem for does not qualify, little BOY. Where do you come off being so delusional. You are not going to intimidate anyone on PH any longer. Do you get that?
Sherrie Kolb Cassel
(11/20/2013 7:12:00 PM)
While the devolving boys stroke themselves (truly mirror images of one another) ....here's a poem to discuss (or not) .
Multiplying Ground Zero
By Linh Dinh b.1963
Ground zero refers to the detonation point
Of a bomb of any size, from one strapped
To the waist, to the Fat Man, to the Massive
Ordinance Air Burst. Like the Daisy Cutter,
The M.O.A.B. explodes just above the ashen clay
To insure that it spreads its sentiment sideways.
(11/20/2013 6:18:00 PM)
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After " DRIVING HIS TONGUE FROM CITY TO CITY" I now present this with a bit more pride. I am still humble enough to know that I am still learning. I have cut this poem a bit to attract the sharks. Gee, I wonder what Lamont will think of this one....hmmmmmmm
Crows And Other Things
Words, lurking in the eye of a mosquito
clinging to the wall as it contemplates
its next next victim, or floating in the air,
like suspended drops of water liberating
light's imprisoned spectrum. They may scatter off
a humming bird's wing, shimmering
blue and green, or even skim across
a placid lake's glassen surface. They are found
wedged between a flower's uneven petals.
They can be drifting along side
the odors rising over the life-like corpses
in a fish market. You can barely
make them out at the snaking edge
of the fresh, flowing blood
of a slaughtered sheep.
They ride the low lying clouds
crowning the distant peak
of a majestic mountain.
They may be smoke-encrusted,
reflecting the neon light shining into
a flop house room. They are written
all over the soulless faces in the morgues,
where all the toes try to point
in the right direction. They mix in
with the sharp cawing of a crowd of crows
heading into the trees. They bounce off
a woman's luscious, swaying hips
as she crosses a darkened street.
Sometimes they happen to come
together just when I happen to look
their way and my heart will skip
a beat because it's as if
I was being offered a gift,
a gift that words can only give,
a poem, ready made, made from everything.
(11/20/2013 5:39:00 PM)
I am actually very proud of that poem. It was my 3rd attempt at poetry. Not bad at all. Not 30th or after 30 years but rather 3rd. I would say not bad. What is curious is that you started to make it personal by calling me Slacker, which is fine. I have maintained the respect for your name and continue to refer to you as Lamont. Had you had talent none of this would have happened. I would have read your critique and would have been grateful for the input. but then I thought well, let's see who is critiquing here. Walks like a qualified critic, talks like a qualified critic but in truth is nothing more than a big bird with big nubs where wings should be. You will learn that you are not qualified to critique on here. Driving his tongue from city to city. I will bet you that there are high school kids more qualified to consider themselves good poets. " DRIVE HIS TONGUE FROM CITY TO CITY! " Aren't you even a bit embarrassed? I personally think JC is qualified to critique, but, you after what I have read, are not.
You will learn little boy to humble yourself as we all do here and maybe start learning from us since " you ain't got nothing to teach" as my granny used to say.
What do you think anyone who has a poem written about them will do?You honestly think they will curse you or criticize harshly. Come on grow up Lamont. Of course they are going to thank you. That is not a critiques that is a note of appreciation. Mine was a critique and you just couldn't take being shown for what you are. Who in their right mind would write " CAR OF THEIR THOUGHTS" and consider that poetic. What happened to your high sounding comments and critiques?CAR OF THEIR THOUGHTS. Please. Then the worse was yet to come. " DRIVING HIS TONGUE FROM CITY TO CITY" and you had the audacity to call JC's poem Mockingbird drivel. You need to learn a few things my boy before you open your mouth next time. I approached these two poems with a wide open mind and the doors shut fast once my senses were bombarded with " DRIVING HIS TONGUE FROM CITY TO CITY! " . And you claim that some here lack originality! I think the line I just quoted should help me rest my case. If there is anyone other than the individual who wrote it can justify this line please say so and show me where I have been blind. Your problem is that you have unknowingly and I would say stupidly built a house of glass and for some reason and forgot all about it when you began to hurl your stones. It is not just about me at this point. I heard your nonsense for a nauseating month as you went back and forth with JC. I kept thinking this guy may have something. I just never looked into it as I fell for your words. But when I looked into your writings, the proof in the pudding as they say, there was nothing but dust and mud. The deeper I dug, the less there was.
Just accept it like a man and move on. I put up a critique this morning. Fair and square. Anyone, other than you who dares to agree or disagree with me is free to do so. All part of a day's discussion on one of thousands of forums across the world. You could have let it go. But I fear you are the one obsessed.
I am truly enjoying exposing you for the charlatan that you are. You write nothing of value and yet you present yourself as some new, rare Stevens' yet to be discovered reincarnation. Wallace Stevens you are not, sir and from what I see of 30 years of writing never will be.
Let us be democratic and let the rest of the good people on this forum help decide your fate. It looks like it is in peril.
OK this morning I went to Mr. Lamont Palmer's page and with an open mind, in spite of what has transpired, wanted to see if I would like some of his other writings. I looked for two that were listed under " popular" poems. The first one I read was entitled For Allan Prell. I came to this one as I said with an open mind as I have with anything I read. Things were going well until I came to a screeching halt after reading: " into the room of your life, in the car of your thoughts" . Man, that was it for that poem. Please, " the car of your thoughts" . And you claim you have read Wallace Stevens' works. Back to Adam Snow, I have read better lines from him. Then I glanced at the last line thinking maybe I was a bit harsh in my reaction and what I read is: " Driving his tongue from city to city." That was it! It was then that I was convinced that this is truly a delusional man. The " poem" Mediocrities is now vindicated.
I read a few more and although some structure guidelines are painfully adhered to most lack a spirit. Another poem I read was The Vase In The Corner. Aside from other issues, when you run into the word oxymoron in a poem, it had better have a good reason to be there. This one didn't and sounded like a teenager's statement. It is not so much that he is good or bad as a poet, but rather that his quality of work does not justify the rooster-like behaviour he exhibits about other people's work.
That is it for me. I just wanted to end this debate with some proof as stated in the first paragraph. I am in the right forum aren't I?Poetics and " poetry" discussion?
(11/20/2013 5:31:00 PM)
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Mike and Lamont, guys! Let's stop picking on each other. Neither one of you will convince the other he's a douchebag, so, c'mon, save your obviously energetic souls for something more important than a flame war—your poetry!Replies for this message:
(11/20/2013 9:28:00 PM)
As new as I am to poetry, you would never find me writing " DRIVING HIS TONGUE FROM CITY TO CITY" and if I ever did, being humble I would have passed it through JC who would have hollered at ... more
(11/20/2013 9:18:00 PM)
Agreed. Write a POEM about the situation. See who's better. Then we'll all discuss objectively.12 lines. Mano-a-Mano! Whoever writes the best poem gets the middle weight poet championship belt (southe ... more
Sherrie Kolb Cassel
(11/20/2013 7:03:00 PM)
This " fight" is weak and a triple yawner. Good grief! Mine and Angie's fights were more exciting than this.
- Mike Acker (11/20/2013 9:28:00 PM) Post reply
(11/20/2013 5:12:00 PM)
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Slacker, I think Hallmark would send this crap back if you sent it to them. I wrote like this when I was 16. On a scale from 1 to 10, I'd say its a negative 154. Trite rhymes, and lilting. I'll give the advice to you that is given here so often: STOP WRITING! ! In your case, there's no more to say. Just stop writing. Egads!
We will end up where we started.
Neither gaining since we parted.
Years of conflict will be a waste.
We will mourn what we killed in haste.Replies for this message:
(11/20/2013 9:10:00 PM)
If you think thats better, you really are not sane enough to be in this battle. LOL -LP
(11/20/2013 5:55:00 PM)
A lot better than DRIVING HIS TONGUE FROM CITY TO CITY. 30 years of writing and reading poetry.....my God. Even Granny would be disgusted by a line like this one.
- Lamont Palmer (11/20/2013 9:10:00 PM) Post reply
(11/20/2013 4:36:00 PM)
How many of you remember the inspiration behind this poem?
180 Second Freefall
Somewhere in the debris, hid
beneath the poet’s workshop
post-its, napkins, bus tickets
are jockeying for position.
Somewhere in the middle ground
between the ink and sweat stains
an idle thought is floating on
the jetsam of the day
Somewhere in the subterfuge
of someone’s idle tryst,
a motion that was carried falls
across the starting line
Somewhere in vacuity
confusion coaches chaos
and maelstroms of Minerva’s hair
are lashing sun- bleached skin
somewhere in a psyche
of a weeping villanelle
a poet lays his pen down soft
to bid one last farewell.
(11/20/2013 3:56:00 PM)
Oh I have to repeat this. 'The forum will decide my fate?' LOL. You truly are a whack job, Slacker. You can always tell when the forum is a person's whole life and existence; they stupidly think that whatever is said here is the unassailable truth and somehow will mysteriously have an affect outside the forum. I think my fate in Po-Biz is fine, regardless of your 'opinions'. Thats a huge laugh.
OK, here's the thing: Prell, you sniveling idiot, could have easily IGNORED the poem. His son saw it first. He could've dismissed it as drivel, not even showing to Prell, his dad. And Prell, once seeing the poem, didn't have to put it on his author's page. I didnt personally SEND the poem to him, they ran across it. Even if I had sent it to him, he didnt HAVE to use it. I didn't know him and he didn't know me. He could've dismissed it like you're (dumbly) doing and moved on. I wouldn't put a BAD poem about me on my book, no matter how 'glowing' it was. So that letter proves that there is an opinion other than yours (big surprise) on my work. I mean, that was easy to prove. Unless you're saying that your opinion, a knucklehead whose been writing poetry for 10 minutes, somehow trumps all other opinions?Another laugh.
You can quote what you call a 'bad line', but that doen't compare to nearly an entire collection of poems which are BAD, which is what you have on your hands, Slacker. Your opinion is uneducated, unread and unqualified. If you think its the last word on my work, or anyone else's work here, you're crazy. When you start to get emails offering you to publish like I do often, then you can put your opinions up against mine, or my work. I've proven myself (which I don't like doing, but morons like you have to be shown) - all you're doing is talking aimlessly and without a shred of credibility. What I have modestly attained in the ELEVEN years I have been writing, is more than you will attain for the rest of your life. Mark my words and remember Lamont Palmer told you that. -LP