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Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • Gulsher John (6/6/2014 9:52:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies Stage

    What is more important in a POEM?
    Message?
    Meaning?
    Construction?(prosody)

    (the list can be extended to Sign, Symbol, imagery etc...)

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    • F. J. Thomas (6/11/2014 9:02:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

      If the only thing that can be said about a work is that " it is perfectly formatted" then it is not poetry. Make me understand your philosophy or feel your pain. Raise my spirits with your h ... more

    • Lamont Palmer (6/6/2014 2:20:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

      " The importance lies in what the poem is. Its existence as a poem is of first importance, a technical matter, as with all facts, compelling the recognition of a mechanical structure. A poem whic ... more

    • Lorraine Margueritte Gasrel Black (6/6/2014 11:04:00 AM) Post reply Stage

      I would say that the elements required in writing a poem would depend on the style and subject.

  • Gulsher John (6/5/2014 12:21:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    Modern poetry or poetry of the 20th century:
    (source: WIKIPEDIA)

    The Imagists
    rejected the sentiment and discursiveness typical of much Romantic and Victorian poetry, in contrast to their contemporaries, the Georgian poets, who were generally content to work within that tradition. At the time Imagism emerged, Longfellow and Tennyson were considered the paragons of poetry, and the public valued the sometimes moralising tone of their writings.
    In contrast, Imagism called for a return to what were seen as more Classical values, such as
    directness of presentation
    and economy of language,
    as well as a willingness to experiment with non-traditional verse forms.
    Imagists use free verse.
    The origins of Imagism are to be found in two poems, Autumn and A City Sunset by T. E. Hulme.

    The roots of English-language poetic modernism can be traced back to the works of a number of earlier writers, including Walt Whitman, whose long lines approached a type of free verse, the prose poetry of Oscar Wilde, Robert Browning's subversion of the poetic self, Emily Dickinson's compression and the writings of the early English Symbolists, especially Arthur Symons.
    However, these poets essentially remained true to the basic tenets of the Romantic movement and the appearance of the Imagists marked the first emergence of a distinctly modernist poetic in the language. One anomalous figure of the early period of modernism also deserves mention: Gerard Manley Hopkins wrote in a radically experimental prosody about radically conservative ideals (not unlike a later Ezra Pound) , and he believed that sound could drive poetry. Specifically, poetic sonic effects (selected for verbal and aural felicity, not just images selected for their visual evocativeness) would also, therefore, become an influential poetic device of modernism.

    A characteristic feature of Imagism is its attempt to isolate a single image to reveal its essence. This feature mirrors contemporary developments in avant-garde art, especially Cubism. Although Imagism isolates objects through the use of what Ezra Pound called " luminous details" , Pound's Ideogrammic Method of juxtaposing concrete instances to express an abstraction is similar to Cubism's manner of synthesizing multiple perspectives into a single image.
    Modernists saw themselves as looking back to the best practices of poets in earlier periods and other cultures. Their models included ancient Greek literature,
    Chinese and Japanese poetry, the troubadours,
    Dante and the medieval Italian philosophical poets (such as Guido Cavalcanti) ,
    and the English Metaphysical poets.

    Features: : : : imagist prefers:

    Direct treatment of the " thing" , whether subjective or objective.
    To use absolutely no word that does not contribute to the presentation.
    As regarding rhythm: to compose in sequence of the musical phrase, not in sequence of the metronome.
    Complete freedom of subject matter.
    Free verse was encouraged along with other new rhythms.
    Common speech language was used, and the exact word was always to be used, as opposed to the almost exact word.
    In setting these criteria for poetry, the Imagists saw themselves as looking backward to the best practices of pre-Romantic writing. Imagists poets used sharp language and embrace imagery. Their work, however, was to have a revolutionary impact on English-language writing for the rest of the 20th century.

  • Jefferson Carter (6/4/2014 10:47:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies Stage

    Guys (and gals) , I know my comment about Maya being a mean drunk was possibly mean; she did have a hellish childhood and was damaged in many ways. I really don't give much weight to a poet's biography though when I read her poems. If they're not very good, they're not very good, and her past pain doesn't change that. I don't want to add to the world's meanness, but I truly despise the media's shoveling horsesh*t about a celebrity they've helped create. She wasn't a saint. She was a damaged, mildly talented poet (haven't read her prose) who became an inspiring role model for many. RIP.

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    • Professor Plum (6/4/2014 3:19:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      I agree.

    • Lamont Palmer (6/4/2014 1:51:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies Stage

      I suppose its safe to say no one's a saint?The media likes to create myths around our cultural icons. Frost being a 'nice, country bumpkin who just happened to write poetry' was another myth. We all h ... more

  • Mike Acker (6/4/2014 10:28:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies Stage

    The Clue

    Even those outside picked up on the buzz.
    They also began to be agitated, well, more
    excitable, I suppose. Inside the glassed-in
    area, the question yet unanswered was how
    the woman had gotten to the roof. Uneventful,
    was the best way they could describe her stay.

    Everyone began to assure themselves that
    everything was done properly and by the book.
    This was a major event, although not rare.
    Two of the ones in the enclosed area came
    out and headed to her room. There wasn't
    much there, which is common here. They were,

    however, looking for something specific, maybe
    a clue of sorts. After giving up and turning to
    leave, one of them went back to the bed and
    pulled the covers, then raised the pillow and
    there it was. Unfolded with very little on it, one
    could almost miss it against the white sheets.

    They went back to show it to the rest. The one
    who found it began to read out loud and it was
    harder than it seemed. It looked like she had
    difficulty writing it and now became difficult to read.
    She managed to make sense of the first few words,
    but then the last word or two seemed unreadable.

    " All I wanted was" , was all they could read
    at that point. But the last part seemed illegible,
    until one of the ones standing screamed out:
    " a hug! All she wanted was a hug! "
    The note then dropped, face down, to the ground.

    Mike Acker

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  • Jefferson Carter (6/3/2014 3:17:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies Stage

    i just heard from a reliable source that Maya Angelou was a raving drunk! How strange this aspect of her personality never made it into the media. Jezus, she could even have been one of the pseudonyms that plague this site! ! !

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    • Peter Stavropoulos (6/3/2014 9:17:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      Didn't she suffer trauma as a child and spend 5 years of her childhood not talking, and then become a famous poet after more tribulation?I haven't been a fan of her poetry but I might become one.

    • Frank Ovid (6/3/2014 4:18:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

      I can see you got your PhD in 'Classy'. Nice.

  • Mike Acker (6/3/2014 1:23:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

    Strewn II as reply...one of my favorites...

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    • Mike Acker (6/3/2014 1:23:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      Strewn II In a sterile room, he sits across from me. Modern, polished, exact, seemingly honest, he wears a pristine coat. A gray machine spews out shiny white sheets, strewn with black, bub ... more

  • Paul Butters (6/3/2014 10:44:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies Stage

    Let's throw in some FUN -

    “Rockin’ ’n’ Boppin’”

    It’s time for a rhyme
    I hear you chime.
    It’s time to hit the beat.

    We’re ready to dance
    Without a glance,
    Pick up those Tyger feet.

    Those drums do thump,
    Dancers grind and bump,
    The party’s in full sway.

    Don’t feel like strolling,
    Just want to be rollin’
    In the scattered hay.

    Them guitars are twanging
    I’m really panging
    To twirl you round and round.

    Some like to fight;
    I’d rather dance all night
    To that raucous rebel sound.

    Let’s go.

    Paul Butters

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  • Gulsher John (6/3/2014 7:49:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

    Howl
    – Allen Ginsberg is best known for Howl (1956) , a long poem about the self-destruction of his friends of the Beat Generation and what he saw as the destructive forces of materialism and conformity in United States at the time.
    ____________________
    I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
    madness, starving hysterical naked,
    dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
    looking for an angry fix,
    angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly
    connection to the starry dynamo in the machin-
    ery of night,
    who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat
    up smoking in the supernatural darkness of
    cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities
    contemplating jazz,
    who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and
    saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tene-
    ment roofs illuminated,
    who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes
    hallucinating Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy
    among the scholars of war,
    who were expelled from the academies for crazy &
    publishing obscene odes on the windows of the
    skull…

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  • Gulsher John (6/2/2014 4:41:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies Stage

    Dear Readers:
    The below short passage is a simple
    rephrasing of Mr. Jefferson Carton and of Mr.John Ashbury about Contemporary prosody/poetry.
    (a/p my understanding) ...................
    it's gonna be more productive for wannabes, ESLs, and art leaners if they take it seriously.

    Dears, Poetry and especially the modern, is about the EFFECTS- sound and visual, at least -besides meaning.
    So afore pursuing it:
    ]First read good poetry but don't imitate.
    ]use simple, plain(colloquial?) but not bombastic rhetoric and dictions)
    ] be focused on rhythm (Form, music, pattern) than rhyme (for sound effects)
    ]Avoid sappiness and irrelevant Artfulness.
    ]Prefer good and fresh metaphors analogies, similes that create images but surprising and appropriate. (for visual effects)
    ]Divorce all the clunky stinky expressions. (clichés)
    ] Do focus on meaning rather than message.(don't seek or insert any allegorical meaning in concrete statement)
    ]No need for biographical background and emotionalism.
    ]paint your words rather than write.
    ] Do not bore people with your Confessions, Preaching and Philosophy.(let reader to praise the poem itself)
    ]Extra pruning will help your expression more inspiring

    p.s.
    my posted poems(if they are) are sort of crappy, so please don't marry up them with this passage.

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    • Alexander Rizzo (6/2/2014 8:37:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

      did you write these yourself, john?if so, you're not practicing what you preach, homeboy.

    • Jefferson Carter (6/2/2014 7:21:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      John, I read your " principles" and think they're just not specific enough to be helpful to any fledgling poets. If you could give examples of each principle, that might clarify. But as I ... more

  • Peter Stavropoulos (6/1/2014 6:16:00 PM) Post reply | Read 5 replies Stage

    “Any darn fool can make something complex; it takes a genius to make something simple." - Pete Seeger

    Replies for this message:
    • Peter Stavropoulos (6/5/2014 5:14:00 AM) Post reply Stage

      Alex, I'm not talking about triteness, Hallmark poetry or Jingle writers, I'm talking about reaching greater depth and, thereby, originality through simplicity. Here's another quote from a famous poet ... more

    • Alexander Rizzo (6/5/2014 12:29:00 AM) Post reply Stage

      that doesnt justify triteness peter. sorry.

    • Peter Stavropoulos (6/4/2014 7:23:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      “The art of art, the glory of expression and the sunshine of the light of letters, is simplicity.” -Walt Whitman

    • Alexander Rizzo (6/2/2014 8:17:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      peter, that seeger quote doesn't really ... more


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