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(1849 - 1902 / Gloucester / England)

Invictus

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
........................
........................
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Comments about this poem (Apparition by William Ernest Henley )

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  • Eric Mccloud (12/28/2009 10:06:00 PM)

    This is such a great poem. I first learned it as a pledge of my beloved fraternity A Phi A almost 20 years ago. It helps to inspire you to be a man of strong courage and have a will to endure no matter what obstacles may be placed in your path. These obstacles are life's lessons that we will all face during our journey.

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  • Julie Bienlien (12/28/2009 7:33:00 PM)

    I do not see a defiance of life or death, or a crisis of faith. I see a defiance of predetermined destiny. Do not bow your heads to circumstance; rather, determine your own destiny by choosing your own path and your own reactions to the black pit called life that lies between the poles of birth and death.

  • Tommy Geske (12/25/2009 12:41:00 PM)

    David Austin,

    I agree with your comments regarding Invictus. However, you say it is death that he is defying. It seems to me that it is life that he is defying.

    Death can be a welcome friend at the end of suffering. However Henley faces eveyr challenge that life brings to him without a bowing his head. Driven forward by the fact that he is the 'master of his fate' and 'the captain of his soul.'

    Some have commented about a crisis of faith. But it seems to me that Henley is thanking God for the strength that does imbue him, though may not know who it is that brings him such strength he acknowledges his being and presence.

    It interesting that many comments here discuss the relevance of God in Henley's equation. The truth is faith is just that, faith. Though we personally may be convinced, we can never be certain. There is always an element of truth in God that just can not be proven totally, hence we call it 'faith in God.'

    The element of certainty in God is a myth. I think Henley balances this reality quite well, showing us all that in the end, it is up to to make certain that our soul is not conquered by the harsh realities that we call life.

    Just my thoughts though, sir.............

  • Marius Meyer (12/24/2009 8:56:00 PM)

    And this is exactly why I love poetry. Though I wish my English were of such a caliber that I would write poetry myself, but as such I will stick with the poetry of sound (music) . I have read through the comments again, and this has only reestablished my love for this poem. It has excited and urged people to think and evaluate it and was able to produce a whole myriad of emotions and beliefs. I think I might commit this poem to memory.

    You are most welcome Basra :) .

    And Will, you bring up a most fascinating argument. I definitely can see that, and can agree with that. I have read and analyzed the poem again and found that for me the speaker of the poem is President Mandela and not Henley. An interesting discovery on my part but not surprising seeing as I am South African. As such, what you wrote rings very true.

    Again, this will be one of the poems I have decided to commit to memory.

  • Will B (12/23/2009 11:11:00 PM)

    Marius,

    I had a slightly different opinion on the author's view of God - I believe that it is more about his crisis of faith - not agnostism or atheism. The voice of the poem believes in a greater being, but in his current anguished condition cannot believe that they/it is with him. Thus the crisis of faith, the line does not purport disbelief or disregard for a greater being. This is also aided by the visual verbage regarding being in the dark. This makes the visual statement that he is not being favored and also describes his mental state and physical condition. The genius of that line - 'whatever gods may be' - is that Henley extracts the argument of a greater being from his the assertion of his poem that promotes the indomitable strength of the human soul.

  • Basra Elmi (12/23/2009 5:24:00 PM)

    Marius Meyer,

    Thank you, for your opinion and support of my arguement. It's refreshing to see God fearing someone offer his support with equillibrium pleasantry. I particularly enjoy your opinion of the imprtance of word usage, as such, i will honor you by using your favorite word. I am 'virtually' impressed. :)

  • Marius Meyer (12/22/2009 12:44:00 AM)

    To answer Basra's question: No, unfortunately it is virtually impossible, and it does not end with religion and faith. People tend to formulate arguments on first impressions, unfortunately I myself fall victim to this now an then but try to avoid it, and will happily follow that to the grave with no more thought than was initially formulated. With no more research they would vehemently argue their points, not with the conviction of being correct but for the dislike of possibly being wrong. As such when an opposing argument is posed and research finally is done the research is then sadly but inevitably shaped and morphed to try to make their point work.

    I should point out though at this point that I am not pointing fingers at anyone. I really do not know anybody here but I am answering Basra's question on face value alone. I mean this also not only with religion and it is purely written from personal experience. Now to add my opinion about the poem:

    Poetry is read in two big and virtually equally important ways. The ephemeral way which is plain personal emotions and opinions that are generated from read the poem initially. That does mean that there are as many meanings to a poem as there are people on this earth. This can be the greatest strength or weakness to a poem. People tend to argue and get offended here for the fact that the two 'meanings' do not match. This is a sad truth and happens here all over the place. As such, the artistry and aesthetics is then completely lost in personal differences and it deviates from a discussion of the myriads of meanings the poem evoked to the countless differences in philosophical and social opinions of people. The poet himself falls under this same category. He too has an opinion when he wrote it equally as valid and is the only other opinion that really should be kept in mind when reading any poetry.

    That being said, there is a different way of reading the poem and can be equally as powerful. The meaning of the poem line by line. It is here that the biggest contention seems to erupt. By the sheer line 'whatever gods may be' it is most definitely either agnostic or atheist in nature and as such formulate the meaning of the rest of the poem. This might not have been the intention of the poet, but that is what it comes down to. As I am not the be all and end all of all poetry, and I am not the master of psychology, linguistics and sociology I have to say that this is my opinion, but I find it hard to read that line any other way. But it is about a person suffering and meaning his oppression or strife head on, and it seems to be more a focus on that than on religion and as such can loose its importance to those who do believe in a God. Words in this way are very powerful and people tend to forget that the meanings can have dire effects, whether intended or not, by there sheer meaning and this is unavoidable.

    Now that that whole part is over I virtually agree with Basra on every point, and that is my opinion generated from my ephemeral reading of the poem. I believe that the comments here have slightly shied away from a discussion, which I think is suppose to be the whole purpose of this section, to a whole array of arguments. At which point I am fully agreeing with Jon Harris as well.

    I like this poem, though it has points I philosophically disagree with, but I do feel a bond with the speaker of the poem and as such I give this poem a 8.9/10.

  • Lisa Matich (12/19/2009 6:53:00 PM)

    In light of the use of this poem for the movie Invictus, I appreciated the concept that regardless of circumstance, we choose our path by the decisions we make and our reactions to apparent injustice or pain and suffering inflicted on us by others. Nelson Mandela, in the movie, and possibly in his life, chose to forgive and move on and participate in the healing of his country by being a tangible example of his choice. I believe that God wants us to learn the power of forgiveness in our lives; however, I respect others who just choose to forgive because they think it is the right thing to do. They will earn the favor of man through this choice, and I personally believe they will also receive the favor of God, whether they believe it, want it or not. Thought provoking poem and excellent movie!

  • Basra Elmi (12/19/2009 3:15:00 AM)

    Wow...is it impossible nowadays to express your opinions before self guilted people confront you with their self internal woes?

    Sean taylor- YES, i am unabashadedly telling you that God takes credit to all beauty, creativity and morality. God created beautiful nature, human, who in turn manifested the creativity and morality in them. As to comparing God and harry potter-i rather say nothing but my earnest promise to pray for your soul. lol



    Scott Gowdy,

    You brought forth a very fantastic arguement. 'We are all agents unto ourselves. We all can choose. ' (and followed by the bible scriptures of course)


    I can see your point based on explaining the lines of i am the captain of my soul, and master of my fate. That can ring a connotation of - If you do good and live your life guided by God- you can be master of your fate. Basically, in concept of religion, that it is upto you if you want to go to heaven.


    However, Gowdy, on the second point, i totally disagree.

    'And in relation to the line in the poem 'I thank whatever gods may be' - it sounds like he doesnt know for sure but he is at least acknowledging something greater than himself and expressing gratitude which, for those who believe in god, understand this concept very well'


    He doesnt know for sure? But i thought the point of religion or belief in God was total surrender in NOT a 'being' out there, not a spiritual force in the air, but a total know and belief in God, as your creator. I mean, personal faith is relative to an individual, the degree in which a believer believers in God varries- but he/she who doesnt know for sure God exist-is simply called an agnost. And he who rejects God entirely is called an atheist or a Sean taylor in this case. lol (kidding)


    Last but not least, -Generally, i do think the poem is inspirational. I still stand by orginal analysis, that it is a strong, moving, inspiration poem. There is a ressileance in the poem that can be taken as an inspirational tool; Edward shared the poet's amputation story-which rings very true to the voice of the poem in its strength.(or fight death?) And Smith is also correct as a poem can be interpretted 300 ways, havings said that- i interpret it as a strong moving inspirational poem at the end of the day. Would i be proud to place it as one of my cherished poem collections? No. Why? Strictly based on the looming god-less slash agnost contents in the poem.

  • David Austin (12/17/2009 1:41:00 PM)

    I believe this poem stirs up contentious comments because it is itself a declaration of defiance. I disagree with Edwards that poems need to be understood by the small circumstances surrounding the author. I believe a poet is simply the instrument that brings truth to light and that great poems contain meaning that transcends the mere experience of one little man in one small corner of the world.

    This poem isn't 'godless' at all. It isn't God that Henley is defying-it is death. It is the pain and suffering that we all go through in various measures through variable circumstances. The difference between good and evil is that one allows us to think and reason and choose for ourselves and the other attempts to manipulate and inflict its will upon us. Clearly Henley is defying death and everything evil in our world.

    There is an amazing correlation between these words and the biblical account of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego who were commanded by the king of Babylon to bow down and worship an idol. They responded saying they believed in God and that He would deliver them, but if not, they would never bow down and worship a thing that was dead. All of us are in that same spot from time to time-will we let the pains and sicknesses and sufferings of life conquer our souls? Will we let them force us to bow down and worship them? Or will we defy death to its face and retain our right to choose and remain the masters of our fate, the captains of our souls?

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