Rhythm and Rhyme Workshop


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  • Ernestine Northover (12/5/2005 3:58:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    I'm putting on here a poem that was featured in a piece on war poetry, you may well know it, but I think it's a very moving beautiful poem, It is by an anonymous writer, but was found in an envelope left for his parents, by Steven Cummins a soldier killed on active service in Northern Ireland, to be opened on the event of his death.

    Do Not Stand at my Grave and Weep

    Do not stand at my grave and weep;
    I am not there. I do not sleep.
    I am a thousand winds that blow.
    I am the diamond glints on snow.
    I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
    I am the gentle autumn rain.
    When you awaken in the morning's hush
    I am the swift uplifting rush
    Of quiet birds in circled flight.
    I am the soft stars that shine at night.
    Do not stand at my grave and cry;
    I an not there. I did not die.

    Another one which is I think a lovely poem by Christina Rossetti 1830-1894

    Remember

    Remember me when I am gone away,
    Gone far away into the silent land;
    When you can no more hold me by the hand,
    Nor I half turn to go yet turning stay.
    Remember me when no more day by day
    You tell me of our future that you planned;
    Only remember me; you understand
    It will be late to counsel then or pray,
    Yet if you should forget me for a while
    And afterwards remember, do not grieve;
    For if darkness and corruption leave
    A vestige of the thoughts that once I had,
    Better by far you should forget and smile
    Than that you should remember and be sad.

    Any thoughts on these two poems?

    Ernestine

    Replies for this message:
    • Wayne Guy Butterfield (12/6/2005 11:12:00 PM) Post reply

      Both full of lovely thoughts and images, Ernestine. If only the last line of the first could really be true for the many who've died so tragically.... Thanks for sharing them. Best, Wayne

    • Mary Nagy (12/6/2005 6:00:00 AM) Post reply

      I think they are both beautiful Ernestine! The first one especially, I guess just due to the circumstances of them finding it. What great poems to have on hand when you've lost someone. Very nice. ... more

  • Ernestine Northover (12/3/2005 1:46:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Thanks Wayne for admitting you have bravely read all my long poems, but now, funnily enough, I find them somewhat hard to write, and have gone over to the shorter, punch line type poems. Finding new subjects can be a bit daunting, ones which one feels would be of interest to the majority of poem readers. It's writing a poem that holds the reader and stirs their imagination to say, yep that's a good one! How to be a nervous wreck in two words - WRITE POETRY! ! ! ! ! ! ! Love Ernestine XXX

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    • Wayne Guy Butterfield (12/7/2005 12:11:00 AM) Post reply

      Longer poems always seem harder to me, Ernestine. But when you feel you've finally got it right, bet you'll agree..... it sorta makes you wanna..... WRITE POETRY! ! ! Best, Wayne

    • Mary Nagy (12/3/2005 8:13:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Hey! ! How come when sally types short poems it turns into a link? ? That's cool! Does it work if you type Long poems too? ?

  • Wayne Guy Butterfield (12/3/2005 4:38:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    I'm with you re 4 or 5 stanzas, Mary. Maybe even less... especially where the poem seems just plain obscure to me. I might stick with it a bit longer, though, if the rhythm and rhyme are interesting. Still, I think I actually like 'long' poems most when they do work for me. But that seems to require more complex thoughts and images, and a structure that supports their development at greater length. And again for me at least, a more complicated (but well integrated) system of rhythm and rhyme seems to help a lot in creating such a structure, hence lending support to the development of more complex thoughts and images. Score one for rhythm and rhyme?

    Replies for this message:
    • Mary Nagy (12/3/2005 4:07:00 PM) Post reply

      I think when the poem is written well you don't even notice if it seems extra long........some poems are so well written you hate to see them end. It is never clear-cut one way or another. I guess t ... more

    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (12/3/2005 6:07:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

      Wayne, you came to the right poet......I have plenty of LONG poems on this site. Help yourself. Some of them even work very well. Best H

  • Wayne Guy Butterfield (12/3/2005 4:37:00 AM) Post reply

    Interesting thoughts about both rhyming and length, Ernestine. I've actually read all of your longer poems on PH, and very much enjoyed them! Strange, though... for me, I've gotten _more_ hits on my longest poem, Songkhla, than any other, and hardly anyone's read my shortest, Cycle. Of course, could be folks were just curious about the title, Songkhla, or wanted to see the photos... maybe they didn't really read the whole poem... which'd certainly be sad for me, since they'd miss the whole point.... Takes us back to Mary's comments about tastes... perhaps some folks simply have _short tastes_? ? ? :)

  • Ernestine Northover (12/2/2005 4:39:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    I think it's good to be able to write in both rhyming and unrhyming, it gives one a variation and a wider scope. Also it's good to have humourous ones, mood type ones, dramatic ones, and love, unrequited love ones, character ones, and not be stuck in a 'one type poem' rut. One thing bothers me though, it is that when one writes 'long' poems say more than 8-10 verses, or should I say stanzas, do people on PH actually take the time to read them or do they prefer shorter writes. I have quite a few long ones on PH and somehow they don't seem to attract comments or votes, and yet I feel they are fairly reasonable to read.(Tongue in cheek) ! ! ! ! ! What do you all think? Love Ernestine XXX

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    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (12/3/2005 6:05:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

      I ask you madam' can you spare a dime? And would you take in turn a lovely rhyme? I'd make the rhyme for you to match your smile look at the bird that flew in perfect style. All creatures bi ... more

    • Mary Nagy (12/2/2005 9:06:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      To be totally honest.....I like shorter poems better. It's got to really grab me to keep me reading more than 4 or 5 stanzas. If it's good, I'll read even more though!

  • Wayne Guy Butterfield (12/1/2005 6:38:00 AM) Post reply

    Thanks so much for the input, Mary, and so pleased you enjoyed the poem. You really do a great job of describing how tastes can indeed differ. I'm with you in appreciating both rhymed and free verse. And I feel lucky to enjoy writing in both styles, because some thoughts and images seem to work better for me with rhyme, and some without. Your poems show you are clearly at home with both, but I wonder about those PH members who only write in free verse or rhyme. Would they also see it as just a matter of taste - or something more? It'd be interesting to hear from any who care to respond. And if you or Ernestine or others know of any particular members who seem like good examples, perhaps we could invite them to share a bit of their perspective? ? ?

  • Mary Nagy (11/30/2005 2:43:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Hi Wayne! I think you've said it when you said it's a matter of taste. You will get some people that think any rhyme is forced and unnatural while on the same poem others will think the rhyme seemed to flow so naturally that it almost seemed effortless. To each their own I say. I'm not a big believer in strict rules of any type when it comes to poetry. I think we risk losing something very special when we start limiting what's accepted. Personally I prefer a rhyming poem and the rhythm just seems to go along with it. I think that's when it really 'sings' to me as poetry should. I have found many poets here that write without rhyme and not only have I found myself enjoying it, but I've also found myself inspired to try some free verse of my own. So, as for your poem.......I love it! I think the last words in each line just add that little touch of drama that brings it to life! I enjoyed this poem very much Wayne. Thanks for posting it. :) Sincerely, Mary

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  • Ernestine Northover (11/30/2005 1:05:00 PM) Post reply

    Thanks to Wayne for posting onto the Rhythm and Rhyme workshop, great stuff, anyone else going to get the ball rolling? Aren't we a shy lot! ! ! ! ! Love Ernestine XXX

  • Wayne Guy Butterfield (11/28/2005 9:46:00 AM) Post reply

    Hello, Ernestine, Mary, and other R+R visitors. Does seem a bit sad this workshop gets so little input, so since no one else seems ready to volunteer … hope the following is on topic. I’m new to the site, and have only just begun to write again after ages away from poetry, so I may be way behind on this, but in trying to capture certain things in poems, I am finding that, at least for me, there seem to be times when nothing else works like rhythm and rhyme.

    Wrote a poem called Gone a few days ago (copied below) , in which I tried to capture the rolling tide of emotions that the actress Zhang Ziyi goes through in the doorway scene of the movie 2046. If you haven’t seen the film, I might mention it’s received numerous awards, and some critics consider Zhang Ziyi the best actress around these days. The film also has a powerful musical score that often seems like a separate force, engulfing and sweeping the characters along.

    When I posted Gone, a couple of members said they liked the rhyme. One seemed neutral. And one suggested deleting the rhyme words from the end of each line. Ironically, my first drafts of Gone did not include the ending rhyme words. I added them (and the cross rhymes and rhythms) because I felt I needed something more to help convey the doorway scene’s music and emotion. Before adding them, I felt it was a bit like watching the scene with the Mandarin soundtrack turned off, and only the subtitles on. But some would obviously disagree.

    Just a matter of taste, perhaps. Still, it seemed that some of the questions raised by considering Gone with and without the ending rhyme words might be of interest here. When, for instance, do rhythm and rhyme seem likely to add something special? When are they likely to detract? What kinds of rhythm and rhyme work best with what kinds of poems? How much is it possible to generalize?

    Would welcome any thoughts members may have on these or other such points.

    Gone

    She looked into his eyes, hurting
    Her lips still pursed, flirting

    She took a step forward, halted
    Her mouth tried for words, faltered

    The line of his jaw, resisting
    The glint in his eye, insisting

    Her face froze for a moment, cold
    She looked down again, old

    He spoke softly then, rhythmic
    His words seemed to help, sympathetic

    She looked up again, searching
    Her mind tried to work, lurching

    Her arms reached for him, hoping
    She almost braved a smile, coping

    The quick touch of his hand, drifting
    The frame of his body, twisting

    He began to move away, betraying
    His steps down the stairs, fading

    Her heart seemed to stop, broken
    She broke into sobs, choking

    After so many nights, unending
    After so much hope, intending

    There was nothing to show
    There was nowhere to go

    (dedicated to Zhang Ziyi and 2046)

    Wayne Guy Butterfield

  • Mary Nagy (11/27/2005 8:09:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Hey.........that went well huh Ernestine?

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    • Ernestine Northover (11/28/2005 3:16:00 PM) Post reply

      Absolutely Mary. lets hope this one gets a few more started on this forum. It's a clever poem, although I haven't heard of this film or the lady, but I liked the poem very much. Love Ernestine XXX

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