Poetics and Poetry Discussion

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  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 4:15:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
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    JC, I don't want to argue for argument's sake (quiet, Gonzilla) but in fairness to all, I must say: I've just read the first 30 of Vincent Turner's
    poems - and the guy is A Poet. Despite the dyslexia, the barely-GCSE grammar (he wrote his first poem during GCSE exams..) , he's natural - a naif in the best sense, with an emotional honesty and simplicity that goes straight to the heart. He has had much warm and intelligent response on this site (his little poem on what it was like before he met PH is a gem, his poem about his wife in bed is as one commentator said, a poem that every woman in the world would like to have written to her; the poem from a drug to an addict is a chiller; and when his partner and he separate, he remembers the smell of the bathroom after she's had a bath...if anyone feels that can offer him advice on maters poetic, then please do - he deserves the best. In x years' time, he'll be one of the gems of this site. And as of now, I'll read everything he writes if I can.

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    • Rookie Rusty Daily (1/2/2006 6:16:00 PM) Post reply

      If Michael says someone is a poet then it's good enough for me to take a look. Which I did. Michael is right. Vincent ain't got no poetic fetchins up technically, but the sumbish is a poet.

  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 2:42:00 PM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    Sometimes I'm inclined to think that there's, despite all the equality stuff, still a basic divide: the men judge poetry by form, the ladies by content. Jefferson, Mary, Sally, I put that to you.

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    • Rookie David Mitchell (1/3/2006 9:09:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      I do not think that it is fair to make such broad sweeping brushstrokes of comments, that there is a divide between men's and women's critical reactions to the poetry on the site. I have some knowl ... more

    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 3:04:00 PM) Post reply

      I'd say you can't be an effective poet - or critic - without being well aware of both aspects. But I still think I note that tendency in some of the comments here.

    • Rookie Mary Nagy (1/2/2006 2:51:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      I think you might have a point Michael but, in defense of some of the men here, there are lots of men here that will simply let you know that they've felt your poem and not worry about your technique. ... more

  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 2:01:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Weird and wonderful things are happening to the 500 lists which of course we never look at: three of our number have been elevated to immortal sainthood, running neck and neck on the heels of Shakespeare & Co - while, however, their top poems have suddenly dropped by hundreds of places; Billy Collins has displaced Silverstein and Angelou and Neruda as top poet, with a huge increase in readership overnight; AND uniquely, Mary Nagy has hit the top hundred in both categories!
    Drink a foaming Guinness to that, guysngals! It's your year!

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    • Rookie Mary Nagy (1/2/2006 2:15:00 PM) Post reply

      Oh my gosh! What the heck! Is there a new way of rating things this year? (I'm not complaining.........but wow.......this is a drastic change) I was scanning the top 500 poets list for new poets ... more

  • Rookie Ben Cassel (1/2/2006 10:56:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    U.S. Poet Laureate Ted Kooser contributed a poem about feeding people with one's tragedy, which is, sometimes, what we do best.

    Lobocraspis griseifusa

    This is the tiny moth who lives on tears,
    who drinks like a deer at a gleaming pool
    at the edge of the sleeper's eye, the touch
    of its mouth as light as a cloud's reflection.

    In your dream, a moonlit figure appears
    at your bedside and touches your face.
    He asks if he might share the poor bread
    of your sorrow. You show him the table.

    The two of you talk long into the night,
    but by morning the words are forgotten.
    You awaken serene, in a sunny room,
    rubbing the dust of his wings from your eyes.

    (Ted Kooser. from _Delights and Shaadows_)

    Happy New Year, friends and fellow toilers
    in this absurd craft.


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    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 1:18:00 PM) Post reply

      ...and maybe, Ben, sometime during the year I'll find it in my heart to forgive you for calling it a 'craft'...until then, Happy New Year in your heart...

    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 11:43:00 AM) Post reply

      Good to think that poets are that moth.

  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 7:31:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    totally irrelevant item: there's a 'War of the Teenage Oners' going on between themselves... ah the nostalgia for irreverent youth...

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  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 7:16:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Answers so far, for which thanks, suggest that rhyme (and probably meter) were used for 'social' purposes, to make a poem more memorable (sagas like the Icelandic sagas, containing the 'soul of a nation'; epics like the Mahabharata containing memorable stories full of ethical instruction): to delight children with their sound as well as memorability; to add sparkle to wit; and I'd add, to give a certain sense of 'inevitability' and anticipation when read aloud - I think Gilbert and Sullivan do this together. And the rest of you seem to differ from me in that you seem to know 'where the poem is going' and rhyme doesn't divert you; I find the fun often in not knowing. More answers please? Especially on 'that couplet moment'! For instance, you're stumped for a rhyme; you find a limited choice in a rhyming dictionary; are you at that moment in control, or tracing a new route on the map of an unknown poem, so to speak? There's fun either way, of course.

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    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 9:38:00 AM) Post reply

      The area I'm trying to focus on is what goes on at that moment when an experienced rhymer actually 'looks for a rhyme'; in the hope that it sheds light on the shaping of a poem. It always seems to m ... more

    • Rookie Joseph Daly (1/2/2006 9:16:00 AM) Post reply

      Though I go along with Lamont, to some extent, rhyme can be beautiful. So Michael, Sherrie has made a valid suggestion (I have done it) another would be to reconise that there are other languages in ... more

  • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 4:57:00 AM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

    There's a question that really fascinates me, and which is seldom if ever discussed. Maybe Stephen Fry gets round to it, Daniel? Those who write only 'free verse' probably don't feel that they're missing anything, personally, by not using rhyme or metre - they regulate their verse if at all, by stress (or in French, number of syllables in classic style) .

    But what goes on in the mind during the search for rhyme and meter? Does metre make for a more 'musical'and evoocative line? Does the search for a rhyme, rather than restrict the mind, actually open it up, subconsciously, during the process?

    I found when writing sonnets, that though some lines came out 'wooden', or strained, or obviously searched for and thus irrelevant in their rhyme, yet there was an extraordinary flow in some, or some of the time, and that the search for rhyme became easier, as if the mind became way ahead of the conscious search; and that sometimes that search opened up a new area of thought for the sonnet so that I ended up in a quite different (and more interesting) place from where I'd expected to be. Or sometimes, the best times, the sonnet started from a question to myself for which I had no answer, until I'd worked through the writing of the sonnet line by line.

    As rhyme and metre, rhyme especially, get written off by some authorities as limitations of thought, I'd be interested to hear from the 'rhymers' here whether there are subtle benefits in the writing (and of course the reading should be the ultimate proof) that go unrecognised or unrecorded?

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    • Rookie Joseph Daly (1/2/2006 7:09:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

      Judging from the responses so far, Michael, you have hit on an important topic. Albert is, of course, correct that rhyme was (particulary in North European cultures) a means to writing poetry that co ... more

    • Rookie Rusty Daily (1/2/2006 6:33:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Michael, I have found on too many occasions the rhyme has limited how I want to say something. Fortunately, most of my work is made for the funny bone and the sing-song rhyme helps if it is not forced ... more

    • Rookie Herbert Nehrlich1 (1/2/2006 5:18:00 AM) Post reply

      Michael, as you undoubtedly know my background exposed me to poetry that rhymed. Period. To this day, I get a different kind of pleasure out of the sound of well-executed rhymes than I do from free v ... more

    • Rookie Michael Shepherd (1/2/2006 5:05:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

      So as not to take too much space, I'm co ... more

  • Rookie Allan James Saywell (1/1/2006 5:14:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    i danced and i danced and i danced, then my panties fell off
    sorry about that on a serious note i have emailed a couple of members with an
    address where they can have a look at my book and if they so desire
    can obtain a copy of my printed book if they are unhappy with the electronic
    version then i cant help them i will get back to other members on this as
    i hope the group takes off it is a place where we can share our poetry
    our pictures our nonsense while maintaining our great site here at poem hunter

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  • Rookie - 0 Points Carole (Cookie) Arnold (1/1/2006 2:02:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    Hello Everyone
    I just started today on this site.
    I wanted to wish everyone A Happy New Year
    May 2006 spiral each of you into sucess.

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    • Rookie - 0 Points Mary Nagy (1/1/2006 7:45:00 PM) Post reply

      Hi Cookie! I've read some too and oh my gosh...........how fun! You do seem to have a ''sweet tooth'' too! I love your poems and I look forward to reading more. Sincerely, Mary

    • Rookie - 0 Points Ernestine Northover (1/1/2006 4:23:00 PM) Post reply

      Welcome to PH Cookie, I've already had a peek at your poems and have given some comments too. You are on my wavelength. Happy posting. Happy New Year too. Love Ernestine XXX

  • Rookie - 200 Points Ernestine Northover (1/1/2006 12:43:00 PM) Post reply | Read 6 replies

    This poem may not be a great write, but I wanted to put down how I fell about PH.

    2006 is here to stay,
    At least for one whole year,
    So all on poemhunter.com
    Should give a hearty cheer.

    For we've another span of days,
    365 in all,
    To write our poems in our different ways,
    When inspiration gives a call.

    So those on PH raise a toast,
    And appreciate this news,
    Let's all shout loud, for we can boast,
    That we're a damn good crew.

    Happy New Year to everyone,
    Let's make it really great,
    Fellow poem writers, we have won
    The right to CELEBRATE!

    Just a fun write, not to be taken seriously as poetry as such, just a ditty I put together.

    Love Ernestine XXX

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    • Rookie - 200 Points Herbert Nehrlich1 (1/1/2006 10:12:00 PM) Post reply

      Oh Ernestine, oh Ernestine do take a whole vanilla bean and grind it up into fine dust add to it nutmeg if you must. Some heavy cream and lots of honey twelve beaten eggs (it won't be runny) , ... more

    • Rookie - 200 Points Lori Boulard (1/1/2006 4:47:00 PM) Post reply

      Here here! Happy New Year!

    • Rookie - 200 Points Joseph Daly (1/1/2006 2:10:00 PM) Post reply

      Ernestine you are too damn modest. In fact there seems to be a lot of humility about these past few days. I just hope it isn't catching.

    • Rookie - 200 Points Mary Nagy (1/1/2006 1:11:00 PM) Post reply

      Hey....I ''seriously'' think this is gre ... more

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