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Poetics and Poetry Discussion

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  • Allan James Saywell (11/9/2005 4:28:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Good to see you back Gerry your talent has left a void in the rank and file

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  • Allan James Saywell (11/9/2005 4:21:00 PM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

    could someone please call me a old prick so i can become angry enough to write
    a poem today i am as barren as a old women in the bible

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    • ***** ***** (11/9/2005 5:50:00 PM) Post reply

      Oh and... what about all the pointless wanker old men in the bible? There is a myriad you could aspire to.... hee hee. How do you like them apples?

    • ***** ***** (11/9/2005 5:47:00 PM) Post reply

      You pointless, drunken waste of words. What are you doing constantly hovering on a site that so above you? I have never come across such an arrogant idiot masquerading as a poet. Who are you anyway ... more

    • ***** ********* (11/9/2005 5:41:00 PM) Post reply

      I'd be happy to oblige Allan! but I am just too much of a lady! in waiting. Grinning Tai

    • Michael Shepherd (11/9/2005 4:32:00 PM) Post reply

      promise that if i dont you wont?

  • Allan James Saywell (11/9/2005 2:53:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    did mister sheperd receive a bad comment on one of his poems, could mister sheperd tell me which poem so i can appraise the said poem and give mister sheperd an honest comment from a fellow poet

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    • Michael Shepherd (11/9/2005 5:28:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      That's really kind of you, Allan. But my comment was only about criticism in general and what I thought was useful comment. But I've been getting low ratings recently, and it makes me feel I'm 'push ... more

  • Allan James Saywell (11/9/2005 2:25:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    why would an old poem of mine called 'the black whole of love'get 94 votes
    overnight i will never understand the internet or people for that matter

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    • Cj Heck (11/9/2005 2:56:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Allan, maybe some college poetry class is studying your poem. Once in awhile, one of my poems for children will do that, get a lot of hits overnight. CJ

  • Allan James Saywell (11/9/2005 2:22:00 PM) Post reply

    are you going to discimanate against the dead poets why cant they be on the list

  • Marcy Jarvis (11/9/2005 1:22:00 PM) Post reply | Read 5 replies

    Was Bukowski MARRIED to Jane? ? ? I mean, in the 'traditional' sense? ? ? I always thought she was his girlfriend.

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    • Allan James Saywell (11/9/2005 2:58:00 PM) Post reply

      well he could have had her name changed to his by deedpoll as in a common law marriage which is absolute in the eyes of any church and is the law of the land in most western countries idid the same th ... more

    • Marcy Jarvis (11/9/2005 2:27:00 PM) Post reply

      Jane died so young (suicide) that I don't think they would have had time to be married by common law (which last I checked, is seven years in the states where it still applies) . I honestly even was ... more

    • Rev. Dr. A. Jacob Hassler (11/9/2005 2:18:00 PM) Post reply

      come to think of it, i don't think Hunter Thompson was married in the literal sense to his last wife. i think it was more or less a common law thing.

    • Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 1:53:00 PM) Post reply

      You know, that's a very good question. I ... more

    • Poetry Hound (11/9/2005 1:38:00 PM) Post reply

      Oooh, nice dodge.

  • Michael Shepherd (11/9/2005 1:12:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    This isn't going to resolve the personal issues, but just to say, we're all quite brittle after 'pulling off' a poem that was a personal achievement towrite. I detest two sorts of comment: 'This is a hackneyed theme.' Well, so it might be, but it's the first time I tried to write on it, thanks...; and 'This poem could be shortened'. That's lazy criticism - say just where you would shorten it, or keep quiet...
    I like criticism like 'I'd be happy if you left out the last verse; you've made the point so well and movingly by the end of the verse before'; I'll take that on board.
    And on Poemhunter, criticism as from reader reaction, rather than critic reaction, is I think the best tone: someone's troubled enough to read it carefully as a poet, not an examiner or press reviewer or teacher; they've empathised. You should be grateful.
    Sometimes the passage complained of is what you think are the best lines - then the whole poem gets rewritten!
    Treat these offerings and the sweat and tears that went with them, as drafts, not competition entries!

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    • Michael Shepherd (11/9/2005 1:49:00 PM) Post reply

      yeah, PoHo, both of them your favourite comments, did you notice? My ego's still bleeding...

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  • Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 10:31:00 AM) Post reply | Read 7 replies

    I hate to break up this little love fest, but I want to updat all on the 'thing' (I'm tired of that other word) . Currently 30ish poets from 15yrs. old to 75 (still waiting for an OK from a very mature 13yr old who was interested) , covering N. America, Australia, Europe and Asia. It's SO EXCITING! Here they are alphabetically:

    PS Poem titles are shorthand, just so I can keep them straight. Be not afraid, they will be given the greatest care when going in!

    Adrienne Aversa: Autumn; David; the magic that you do
    David Nelson Bradsher: A Tentative Appointment; February 9,2001; Refrain
    Faith Elizabeth Brigham: We Do Not Write About
    Lori Boulard: And What Have I Done…; A Perfect Kiss
    Sally Clarke: Derelict; Enigma; Dolphins
    Ivy Cristou: A Letter from the Soul to the Mind
    Peter Crowther: Late Summer Migrants; White China Tea; Moon God
    Laura Cummings: The Best Laid Schemes o’ Mice and Men
    Raynette Eitel: Daja Vu; Melanoma Butterfly; Knowing Your Words
    Tiffany Etter: An 8 yr Old’s God; I Am Blonde; You, Yes, You
    Jace Gatzemeyer: Time Is An Ember
    Ulrike Gerbig: A Mod’s Dream; Call Me Lillith; By the Window
    Sherrie GK: Halloween, Party of One; Point of Origin; Purple Heart Survivor
    Uriah Hamilton: A Girl I Once Saw..., A Tender Reprieve, and Unrequited Love
    Jerry Hughes: Tomorrow; Sun Woman; For A Dancer
    Marcy Jarvis: What entrance! In; Un Petit Coeur Gourmand; Love Never Ages
    John Kay: Coasting Toward God; Controlled Poetry; On Her Way
    Mary Nagy: A Collision of Souls; The Path of Forgiveness; My Dream of Reality
    Herbert Nehrlich: A Starry Night; Behind The Old Mill; Rebels Fall
    Ernestine Northover: That One Kiss; My Head; One Way Love
    Nikhil Parekh: It Was a Female’s…; If You Cut a Tree; Titanic…
    Andrew Philips: Awakening of Life; Where Have All My Unicorns Gone
    Poetry Hound: three comments on Bob Gotti’s poems
    Max Reif: Metamorphosis; November Crossing Berkeley…; A Galaxy Past Gutenberg’s
    Alice Vedral Rivera: Fragments; Soul Work; Torment
    Ronberge: In Defense of the unPoet; All Part of the War…; Who Not Loved…
    Michael Sheperd: Diary of a Poem; Medieval English Cathedral; The Poet's Significant Other..
    G. Thompson: And We Kissed; The Oddest Places
    Vidyanjali: Passion; Beware…Globalization; Laughed At
    Simon Whild: The Feral Feline
    Mahnaz Zardoust-Ahari: Living Outside the Box; Long Rd Home; Sunrise on the Caspian Sea

    If we have room for others I will update.
    Thanks! !

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    • Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 3:39:00 PM) Post reply

      hey, there, PoHo, you've caused enough trouble thank you very much. Next time just place an ad on Google; it's quicker! :)

    • Cj Heck (11/9/2005 1:44:00 PM) Post reply

      Thanks for your input, girls. I initially decided on a combination and sent Lori two children's and one adult, but after reading your replies, I sent her another email with three adult poems. Again, ... more

    • Poetry Hound (11/9/2005 1:41:00 PM) Post reply

      What about Bob Gotti and Kim GGG? Do they have to wait until Vol.2?

    • Cj Heck (11/9/2005 12:35:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      IF (a big IF) Lori can fit me in, shoul ... more

    • Mary Nagy (11/9/2005 11:38:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Why no Jake? ? Mr. Hassler?

    • Cj Heck (11/9/2005 10:54:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

      Hi Lori, If you have room for others, ... more

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  • John Kay (11/9/2005 10:09:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply


    Where is all this anger toward me coming from. I only once suggested to you that dropping a couple of lines would improve one of your poems, and you went ballistic. If you look at the comments on the last poem I posted, 'Keine Stimme, ' you will see that several other poets made suggestions for improvement in their comments as well as others in personal emails. I'm grateful for suggestions that help me see what I can't see myself. I don't accuse any of them of 'telling everybody how to write their poems.' I would appreciate it if you would try to put some balance into your criticism of me. I really don't think it's fair or called for.

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    • Marcy Jarvis (11/9/2005 10:16:00 AM) Post reply

      If you'd like, I can post the insane messages you wrote me, John. Accusing me of being 'uptight', for one. I will say this, it's no surprise to me that you and J.C. went to the same school. He used ... more

  • Max Reif (11/9/2005 9:59:00 AM) Post reply | Read 4 replies

    Here's the Bukowski poem I couldn't stand! I just hate the spirit of it! (I'll check out the one Lori mentioned, later) :


    poetry readings have to be some of the saddest
    damned things ever,
    the gathering of the clansmen and clanladies,
    week after week, month after month, year
    after year,
    getting old together,
    reading on to tiny gatherings,
    still hoping their genius will be
    making tapes together, discs together,
    sweating for applause
    they read basically to and for
    each other,
    they can't find a New York publisher
    or one
    within miles,
    but they read on and on
    in the poetry holes of America,
    never daunted,
    never considering the possibility that
    their talent might be
    thin, almost invisible,
    they read on and on
    before their mothers, their sisters, their husbands,
    their wives, their friends, the other poets
    and the handful of idiots who have wandered
    from nowhere.

    I am ashamed for them,
    I am ashamed that they have to bolster each other,
    I am ashamed for their lisping egos,
    their lack of guts.

    if these are our creators,
    please, please give me something else:

    a drunken plumber at a bowling alley,
    a prelim boy in a four rounder,
    a jock guiding his horse through along the
    a bartender on last call,
    a waitress pouring me a coffee,
    a drunk sleeping in a deserted doorway,
    a dog munching a dry bone,
    an elephant's fart in a circus tent,
    a 6 p.m. freeway crush,
    the mailman telling a dirty joke


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    • ***** ***** (11/9/2005 2:48:00 PM) Post reply

      I can see this event so clearly in my mind... and in my life so often. He hit it spot on. I was a Bukowski convert in my late teens and was diving head first into the Beat work until I heard Ginsber ... more

    • Michael Shepherd (11/9/2005 1:26:00 PM) Post reply

      It's a not uncommon sentiment among actors and other artists, though seldom voiced: especially 'matinee audiences': the artist has put so much into the work, that he/she wants to be appreciated at tha ... more

    • Joyce Milli (11/9/2005 12:54:00 PM) Post reply

      I read this poem w/ a recognition that felt both shameful and grateful. I have felt soooo guilty for secretly thinking those same thoughts and it is refreshing that someone gave those reactions (that ... more

    • Lori Boulard (11/9/2005 10:52:00 AM) Post reply

      c'mon, Max. You mean there's not one bi ... more

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