Poetics and Poetry Discussion
(4/29/2005 9:15:00 AM)
Yes Mary, you make a good point.
The only objection I have is that you say ....many good poets......
I haven't seen any here.
Even Shepherd is slipping. But we have swine here....
(4/29/2005 8:04:00 AM)
Why is it so difficult to find people posting actual poetry today? It seems the majority of the 'poems' are simply slams and name-calling instead of being anything worth reading...very similar to things written by school children. With so much talent here, it would be nice to see some real poems posted. I really enjoy so many peoples 'poetry' here it seems a shame to waste so much time writing nasty comments back and forth to eachother. But, I know, it's all been said before and this fight will go to the end...enjoy!
(4/29/2005 7:16:00 AM)
I have followed this with some interest but must say that none of you, including Shepherd, really do know what you are talking about. Just a thought.
'He who hangs out with swine will be a swine before sundown.' (Juanita, maid to Hemingway for Monday, the thirteenth.
(4/29/2005 5:33:00 AM)
Typing errors: most external, Bukowski;
our great world into a tiny one
(4/29/2005 5:24:00 AM)
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This potential gas-bag wonders if he dares join in this discussion...I've studied aspects of practical philosophy for many years, but only in the last five have given any attention to poetry. However the two have inevitably come together in practice. That doesn't mean I can verbalise this effectively...
Since the Hindus have explored and analysed and formulated the movements of mind more effectively (imho) than the West and for longer, their findings/theories are particularly interesting to creative artists.
The theories I've found particularly interesting to consider recently are primarily, that 'as without, so within' - in other words, that whatever is in the 'outer world' as we view it, all the cosmic forces we observe, are all present in the inner world. This is the greatest justification for poetry - that unique activity which brings these worlds together with mind and heart. I'm sure that every poet really believes this.
The second which I've only come across recently (and the forever forthcoming Hindu Encyclopaedia will only scratch the surface of this) is that every 'action' as we see it, is only a 'reaction' to events outside or inside or both. So poetic stimulus can easily be seen to work like this; and obviously, from the lost 'external', Bukowski if you like, situations, or the more internal, as Wordsworth. Correspondingly, with this constant turmoil which is our mind, some poets are more 'reactive'; some more 'contemplative'; some brilliantly using the two together.
Surrealism was one great recent experiment, a partial success, to access these deeper levels of our own(universal) mind - every poet knows those ideas, images, heavenly lines of poetry, which seem to 'write themselves'.
And here is a fascinating theory I've only just come across: that the 'unified' mind, stirring out of stillness, makes a primary division in two almost simultaneous directions: extreme polarity (that is, comprehending the most extreme opposites, love-hate, joy-sadness, etc, as the parameters of the mental and emotional world) and duality - the constant division of any aspect of unity into first two, then into continual diversity, fragmenting our minds into, ultimately, the most trivial mental activities which just reduce our great into a tiny one. And the only antidote to this is some form of 'tranquillity' as with Wordsworth's personal search for this - which brings the mind back to unity. And of course this doesn't mean 'not thinking' but keeping all the senses continually open, rather than walking through the daffodils unnoticing, churning over one's own or the world's problems!
I'd better stop there...sorry for any typing mistakes, head-hand coordination not so good these days.Replies for this message:
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(4/29/2005 4:48:00 AM)
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I see the one-giving has begun again.. sigh.
(4/29/2005 12:55:00 AM)
I think that Bukowski could only write what he wrote- Just like everyone else, he was shaped and conducted by sources outside himself- The idea of free will is a great thing, but it only goes so far. We are slaves to society, family, and the langauge which we speak. Bukowski's life was hell- it was the only thing allowed to him; it was his sufficient engergy and poetry was his scream against it.
(4/28/2005 8:43:00 PM)
dunno if Bukowski was much for bird songs....
(4/28/2005 3:27:00 AM)
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Revisiting the forum today. It seems hard to believe the immaturity in this place.
I was surprised to see Herbert Nehrlich appear again and I would strongly advise him to stay off the forum.
So, Mr. Baxter and myself are really not who we say we are. Hilarious? No.
It is clear to me that the clever comment by Mr. Fry and Poetryhound amounts to a death threat, even if it is a light-hearted one.
Adults do not make death threats, even in jest.
I did not think that the comments of Herbert were all too helpful in this meleé, as he is clearly outnumbered by the opposition, having said that, none of the other contributors covered himself with any glory either.
People who see the need to hide their identities ought not to be allowed on a public forum, they have something sinister to be concealed.
Yes, Mr. Erwin Baxter said it succinctly. I can see no talent worth mentioning in the gang of hounds who have nothing better to do but attack one person. It appears to me that there is a racial element involved, but, considering that Nehrlich was 2 years of age at the end of World War II, it does lead one to the conclusion that the racist accusations are as unfounded as the drivel about correspondence schools.The racial hatred appears to come from the hounds.
It has always been my experience that the very individuals who are neither accepted by their peers nor able to produce works of art or poetry or succeed in a world that expects achievement, are the ones who feel driven to go and destroy.
The tools they use for these destructive rampages are many, none have anything to do with fairness or decency.
You people paint a picture of hate, incompetence and, yes, envy without realising how you look to the casual observer or to those of us who take a closer look. The cowardly act of posting very cruel and nasty messages, only to remove them quickly is typical only of cowards and hateful people.It was mentioned that Nehrlich somehow prevents the discussion of poetry on the forum. During the time of Nehrlich's absence from the forum I have seen only very amateurish talk about poetry on this forum,
however, I may have missed a gem or two.
I had a teacher who was very fond of saying: 'If you want to be up yourself you must first be someone.'
I think I will write to the owners of this website to make some suggestions.
It will be very interesting to see what the future will bring, I will dropp by now and then.
(4/28/2005 2:20:00 AM)
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Back to the intended purpose of the forum I think. Personally, I am fond of Ivor Cutler's poetry...I'll post some soon. Any poets out there familiar with Ivor Cutler's work or got any opinions on it?