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Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • Allan James Saywell (9/10/2005) Post reply Stage

    IF IT'S TOO QUIET WE CAN ALWAYS HAVE A FARKING WAR

  • Allan James Saywell (9/9/2005 10:05:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    FOUND SOMETHING HILARIOUS ON MY KEYBOARD(SOME EXPERTS BELIEVE THAT YOUR KEYBOARD CAN CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY) WHAT CAN YOU GET CAUGHT IN YOUR KEYBOARD
    YOUR TONGUE YOUR--

  • Allan James Saywell (9/9/2005 7:56:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

    could someone tell me what is involved with making a e book how hard is it
    i have picked out forty poems out of 1200 all the ones i like
    there are two options open to a poet create a e book, do a hardcover
    another option is create own website
    or delet the lot and start over because a poet likes a certain poem of his own does not mean that it will get read or become popular could people with some
    grey matter reply with some insight

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    • Michael Shepherd (9/10/2005 7:23:00 AM) Post reply Stage

      It's only a click or two via HELP on this site. But i think it means putting all your poems to date on it unless you delet them from your homepage?

  • Allan James Saywell (9/9/2005 3:55:00 PM) Post reply Stage

    if i wrote a serious poem that asked for drama and clarity of speech i would
    want a actor or someone professional to read the poem
    a comedic poem perhaps mister Bean with the funny face would suffice but
    a great poem can be read in the privacy of ones head for personal enjoyment
    a poem will live all it needs is a audience wether it be spoken in a pub
    with a empty bar or in the Sydney opera house or the super dome just the thought
    of someone enjoying my poetry in the privacy of there toilet, keeps me writing

  • sheila knowles (9/9/2005 11:41:00 AM) Post reply | Read 4 replies Stage

    I'd just like to say, that of all the weird and wonderful things I read in here daily...the forums, that is...this Leonard Cohen thread is something I just have to add to...he is, in my very selfish and subjective opinion, the most wonderful poet that lives! Right, there you have it...I said it :)))

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    • sheila knowles (9/9/2005 1:04:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      too late...I'm already stoned on Cohen and the incense :)

    • sheila knowles (9/9/2005 12:47:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      now let's light some incense and keep it going.LOL!

    • sheila knowles (9/9/2005 12:14:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      well it all boils down to the old objectivity/ subjectivity argument, doesn't it? Objectively, we may be able to say that rhyming ditties about broken hearts and missing walks along the beach (that ne ... more


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  • Michael Shepherd (9/9/2005 10:37:00 AM) Post reply Stage

    Did Leonard Cohen write that album, 'Attitude Lite for Stoned Wannabees'?

  • Michael Shepherd (9/9/2005 4:11:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

    'A poem should stand by itself' has now become a standard badge of pride, I notice...I think it's possible to understand both points of view. The ultimate achievement of the poet is to get the finality of the poem down in words 'for the future'. But they will have 'read it aloud in their mind' many times, and the music will be there. But to me it's arrogant and unforgivable not then to give to their faithful public in a reading, just what they heard in their mind, music, vitality, relevance and all, when they wrote it. The principle of oratory is that you speak to the audience in front of you at the time... I'd be very suspicious of the others, that they think poetry is a contribution to immortal written literature, period...

    Of course, since the days of the bards who created to be heard, until recently, few or no-one would have heard a poet read their own poetry. Certainly no-one would guess from the printed page how 'We real cool' (excuse the repeated reference) sounds when it's brought to life... and of course, some may prefer their own reading to that of the author!

    So I guess it's like the score of a Mozart piano concerto - it's a vital record of what you may bring to life yourself, but only an approximate record of how Mozart played it - and played around with it!

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    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (9/9/2005 4:33:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

      Yes Michael, Mozart is nice enough but Bach! I sometimes imagine that you would read one or two of my poems to an audience. It would boost them to untold heights.As to hearing your poems in your hea ... more

  • Allan James Saywell (9/9/2005 3:54:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies Stage

    a library rang me up and asked me to read some of my poetry for a fund raising
    night ALL TICKET AFFAIR, so along i went with my poetry i think i had written a hundred poems or so i brought along my own amps and mic thank god i did
    there were about seventy people, i was introduced to the audience of about seventy people all full of red wine and away i went like some bloody actor reciting my poems let me tell you at the finish i was exhausted but i did put everything i had into it thank god for amps and mics but i have to tell you it made me feel good at the finish they did give me a ovation not for my poetry
    but the fact that i didn't die on the job

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    • Cheri Leigh (9/9/2005 10:29:00 AM) Post reply Stage

      That is great Allan, I'm certain they were applauding your work, not just your performance. Of course, that begs the question, is there a division between the two when it comes to spoken poetry? At ... more

    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (9/9/2005 4:35:00 AM) Post reply Stage

      Modesty may not become you Allan. I am sure they loved your poetry. H

  • Michael Shepherd (9/8/2005 5:53:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies Stage

    That raises an interesting sidelight - where does a poem exist? Is it possible that those poets who read their own poetry so 'arms-length' and boringly are those who believe it really exists as 'literature' on the page, whereas those who read it wonderfully (Gwendolyn Brooks} see it as something living? Her reading of her own last words of lines which may look like slightly over-styled enjambment on the page - when she reads them herself it's like Ella Fitzgerald about to take off... and when she reads the word 'jaaazzz' it's like a one-word performance...so for her, the poem's a living thing. Whether you can really make a bad poem into a 'good' poem I doubt - but perhaps you can make it a more worthwhile experience?

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    • t. h. ashbury (9/8/2005 7:53:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      if it isn't entirely obvious in my work and i suspect it is, i read my work, which may account (i've always hoped not) for a discrepancy between the page and the performance... i read all poetry out ... more

    • Raynette Eitel (9/8/2005 6:13:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies Stage

      Your discussion made me remember a poet in a workshop I attended for years, Elizabeth Shafer. She wrote mighty poems but read them in a monotone...absolutely dreadful. When I asked her why she did t ... more

  • Poetry Snob (aka Jefferson Carter) (9/8/2005 5:22:00 PM) Post reply | Read 2 replies Stage

    Hunters & Peckers, I agree with Michael's ideas about the need to read a poem aloud to get its full effect. Of course, a bad reader can ruin a good poem and a good reader can trick us into liking a bad poem; I've heard Ashbery read and did not enjoy the experience or the poems. They were boring because he read in such a weak, unexpressive way. When I read his work to myself, I love it. The Cohen poem (it's meant to be a poem, right, not a song?) is pretty clunky. The great image at the end almost makes up for all that flabby wordiness in the rest of the poem. IMSelfimportantO. JC

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    • t. h. ashbury (9/8/2005 5:44:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply Stage

      the song reference is interesting, since we are talking about cohen, are we sure? the reason i ask is i remember struggling mightily to do a prosodic analysis of his work (this was a long time ago) ... more

    • Cheri Leigh (9/8/2005 5:36:00 PM) Post reply Stage

      Very true. I remember the first time I really read Shakespeare, and then speaking it aloud. The effect is entirely different and far more profound, when read well.

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