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Poetics and Poetry Discussion


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  • Robert Rorabeck (7/25/2005 12:10:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    Has anyone here read the Stephen King editorial that you can link to from Poem Hunter's main page? I really liked what Mr. King had to say and how he said it-that he was so possitive (even when I am so often negative on society.... I was one of the adults that stood in line after midnight to get the next Harry Potter book, which I finished the following day.)

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  • Robert Rorabeck (7/24/2005 10:13:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    I decided to post here Werner Herzog's Minnesota Declaration on his idea of ecstatic truth in film (and poetry) , which takes precedence over fact and hollywood. I found his manifesto amazing and fun and because I still can't post my poetry here, I figured why not post this.

    Minnesota declaration: truth and fact in documentary cinema
    'LESSONS OF DARKNESS'

    1. By dint of declaration the so-called Cinema Verité is devoid of verité. It reaches a merely superficial truth, the truth of accountants.

    2. One well-known representative of Cinema Verité declared publicly that truth can be easily found by taking a camera and trying to be honest. He resembles the night watchman at the Supreme Court who resents the amount of written law and legal procedures. 'For me, ' he says, 'there should be only one single law: the bad guys should go to jail.'
    Unfortunately, he is part right, for most of the many, much of the time.

    3. Cinema Verité confounds fact and truth, and thus plows only stones. And yet, facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable.

    4. Fact creates norms, and truth illumination.

    5. There are deeper strata of truth in cinema, and there is such a thing as poetic, ecstatic truth. It is mysterious and elusive, and can be reached only through fabrication and imagination and stylization.

    6. Filmmakers of Cinema Verité resemble tourists who take pictures amid ancient ruins of facts.

    7. Tourism is sin, and travel on foot virtue.

    8. Each year at springtime scores of people on snowmobiles crash through the melting ice on the lakes of Minnesota and drown. Pressure is mounting on the new governor to pass a protective law. He, the former wrestler and bodyguard, has the only sage answer to this: 'You can´t legislate stupidity.'

    9. The gauntlet is hereby thrown down.

    10. The moon is dull. Mother Nature doesn´t call, doesn´t speak to you, although a glacier eventually farts. And don´t you listen to the Song of Life.

    11. We ought to be grateful that the Universe out there knows no smile.

    12. Life in the oceans must be sheer hell. A vast, merciless hell of permanent and immediate danger. So much of a hell that during evolution some species - including man - crawled, fled onto some small continents of solid land, where the Lessons of Darkness continue.

    Walker Art Center, Minneapolis, Minnesota April 30,1999
    Werner Herzog

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  • Allan James Saywell (7/24/2005 8:14:00 PM) Post reply

    yes Aaron and yes i havn't read your work and just because you post a lot of poems about the same thing doesn't mean that people will read your work
    about the same thing

  • Max Reif (7/24/2005 10:01:00 AM) Post reply

    Subject Searches:
    When people were discussing the poem, 'Pigeons'-was it Sheila Knowles'? -I did a title search and found 17 POEMS ON PIGEONS!
    I just did one to see how many poems about COFFEE there are-23!
    Kind of an interesting idea, now and then, to take a 'cross-section' of poets on a given subject by doing that kind of search.

  • Lamont Palmer (7/24/2005 8:58:00 AM) Post reply

    Lorine Neidecker is another rather obscure poet who wrote very short, piquant verses, though more benign and mainstream than Brautigan. She died in 1975 I think; lived on a little island all her life out west, published only two books of poetry, and wrote in anonymity for most of her life. Lotta stories like that. Of course the greatest 'unknown' was Dickinson, who published, perhaps 7 poems in her lifetime.

  • Michael Shepherd (7/24/2005 7:35:00 AM) Post reply | Read 2 replies

    OK guys I just did my homework,54 poems by Richard Brautigan, discuss, compare and contrast and hand it in tomorrow or else... and thanks Aaron...

    It took me back to the 1960s of peace, pot and poetry... life oughta be fun and life's gonna be fun...his poems are short, mostly about five lines, witty because they're short, short because he's seen, had, just one amusing apercu... I read every word because they're that well expressed, kind of friendly Dorothy Parker area that a New Yorker editor might just consider for that blank page-end, then think, no, maybe too sexy - and the sex poems are laughaloud...A few of his poems, if the Beatles had set them (they're Beatle era, whatever the actual date) would be up there with Lennon/Macartney, imho.
    I lol'd at about five/six and snorgled at maybe 12/15 others. And frankly, I was envious of quite a few, as a little sometimes-truth neatly packaged. The after-taste? Witty guy, would've liked to meet him... pass on the music. Yes, thanks Aaron. There are some great forgotten poets hidden in PH. I accidentally hit on some poet writing how she was being slowly taken over by the spirit of Gertrude Stein, unrequested - I was off my zimmer and rolling on the floor...

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  • A.p. Sweet (7/23/2005 10:33:00 PM) Post reply | Read 6 replies

    Everyone needs to read anything by Richard Brautigan. This guy is awesome. And please feel free to read and critique my junk. Thank you.

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    • Lamont Palmer (7/24/2005 11:07:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      Aaron, read a few of your poems. Frankly, I found them very interesting. At the very least I can see you're trying to think outside of the box. The ones I liked best, I liked because I felt they had m ... more

    • Michael Shepherd (7/24/2005 6:41:00 AM) Post reply

      Read your poem 'A Plague'.... so, would we dare...?

    • Richard George (7/24/2005 5:41:00 AM) Post reply

      Do you know about a band called Mad River? San Francisco 1968 and 9. Richard Brautigan was a patron of theirs. On their second LP PARADISE BAR AND GRILL he reads one of his own poems called Love's Not ... more

    • Robert Rorabeck (7/24/2005 1:23:00 AM) Post reply

      i've read a lot of Brautigan- I like is ... more

    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (7/24/2005 12:27:00 AM) Post reply

      It's the background mate, Brautigan used ... more

    • Max Reif (7/23/2005 10:46:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

      I used to enjoy Richard Brautigan, I rem ... more

  • Michael Shepherd (7/23/2005 4:42:00 AM) Post reply

    Lamont, in one of those 'massages in answer to your message' to Sherrie you talked about 'imitating' another poet etc. I tend to work from sound rather than words, and perhaps because of his I've learned a lot, most enjoyably, from writing (respectful) pastiche of 'top class' stuff, prose and poetry. It's as if my mind expands to understand something of the greater mind. And sometimes it really takes off so that I'm using that greater mind to say something 'new' from.
    So I reckon that if you know you're doing it, and it's not 'borrowed clothing', it's a good exercise. But you asked Sherrie, who didn't answer yet?

  • David Hock (7/23/2005 12:15:00 AM) Post reply | Read 3 replies

    hey casey, you out there?

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  • David Hock (7/22/2005 12:49:00 PM) Post reply | Read 1 reply

    have any of you checked out marcy jarvis? pretty brilliant stuff. Pieces like 'An Arch Typed' recall some of the neo avant-garde poets like Kenneth Koch— might resolve some your squabbles about intellectualism vs. Wordsworth's 'spontaneous overflow of emotion' in poetry. The Title Bout! in this young know-nothing's opinion, great art happens in the tension between— can't separate body and soul. no ghosts in the machine in poetry. Eliot ostensibly hated Whitman, but read him copiously. dirty habit, I guess— couldn't help the influence. but blah blah blah, I'll shut up now before I hurt myself.

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    • Herbert Nehrlich1 (7/22/2005 6:30:00 PM) Post reply

      Gee David, this makes me think. I will go back and read some more of her stuff right this minute. Might keep you informed re progress or changes, if any. Best H

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