Poetics and Poetry Discussion
(3/16/2005 10:56:00 AM)
Fantastic conversation going on here, like the rest of you I thank Ulli for starting it all. She is a multiculteral mediator by trade, you know, and this is her true gift!
Keep talking everyone, this is very encouraging.
Incredibly interesting to hear everyones thoughts. I am pleased to hear that for the most part we are in agreement that the ratings should not be taken to heart. We're very touchy, us poets.
I am also very fond of site... I am fascinated by its possibilites.
Best wishes to everyone... and keep writing.
(3/16/2005 9:58:00 AM)
| Read 1 reply
I have found that some people like criticism and others do not. For those that feel offended or insulted by my comments, in most cases I simply stop commenting on their poems altogether. Perhaps for those poets who do not wish to receive criticism, there should be a setting they can employ to block comments. Just like you now can block all incoming private communications, you should be able to block comments as well. A more cumbersome (and non-foolproof) approach would be to post a comment under each of your poems stating that you do not wish to receive criticism.
As for the rating system, it's hard for me to believe people get so bent out of shape about it. I can't believe even a casual observer would take the ratings seriously. Ninety percent of the ratings are tens or ones. I am suspect of both scores. Some of Emily Dickenson's poems have gotten low ratings while some very amateurish drek receives tens. Also, people seem to give scores based on whether the sentiments of a poem appeal to them, regardless of how imaginative or well-crafted the poem is. Plus you can give yourself a ten (or multiple tens if you know how) . Many people seem to engage in this bizarre self-promotion or at least one suspects they do when one sees all the tens they have. The whole numeric rating system is idiotic and should be abolished. Lacking that, I think folks should just have thicker skin and not get their panties in a wad over a low rating. If everyone still wants to maintain a rating system, then I think there is merit in the idea of somehow connecting the rating to the rater.
As for the Top 500 Poet and Top 500 Poem lists, those are extremely simplistic and manipulatable. As a little test recently, I was able to move a poet up approx.25 positions and a poem up approx.200 positions. Those lists should probably be moderated in some fashion.
Good discussion. I hope the moderators are tuning in.
(3/16/2005 9:56:00 AM)
| Read 1 reply
I was saddened to hear that Sandra was leaving because, although I haven't been here all that long, I know how much she would have been missed. So I'm delighted she's decided to stay.
It's very heartening to see this forum being used as a place for open, pleasant and meaningful discussion. Thank you to Ulrike for starting this and to Lenchen for pointing me here.
There are many valuable and intelligent contributions already, which bodes well for the future. I am very shy by nature and I suspect there are many like me who might struggle to find the confidence to post (presenting a poem is so very different) but they will be able to come here to read and to feel part of something special, without feeling pressure to speak up which can be terribly daunting for some...
(3/16/2005 9:45:00 AM)
Um...hi...is there anything I can do here to help? ? ? ? ? ?
Just me, Lare
(3/16/2005 6:50:00 AM)
Hi all, you could post a Likert Scale (very bad, bad, average, good, very good) but that may not improve things.. I suppose it narrows the distance from very bad (1) to very good (10) , just to soften the edge of a one.. I wouldn't have a problem if people need that in the end, but someone could still move you from very good to very bad more quickly couldn't they? If I have worked it out wrong, apologies! Maybe a 3 option would be good, but what wording do you choose there Outstanding/Good/Poor? People would have to agree (outstanding is different to excellent etc..) Seeing as we are people of words, I think it's fair to say that the initial selection or rating words is vital. The two choice option doesn't work for me because it has no relationship to a Bell Curve distribution.. am I getting too into this as I'm writing...? Anyway the rating system that's there was just fine, if people could rate what they really thought honestly. Alas.. Sxx
addendum: this is soooo much better for thrashing out ideas - thanks Ulli XX
(3/16/2005 6:35:00 AM)
Hello, all you fellow poets!
I am soooo glad that many of you took up my suggestion and posted your opinions here.
I think the tone between all of us is improving immensely; maybe it was about time we realized that we all are more or less in the same boat and all sensitive people when it comes to our writing...
Most certainly things that are said in the open in an objective and friendly way might be helpful to all of us.
I am sure we will come up with a good 'new' rating system!
Keep thinking about it and keep posting: it is a joy to see how everything develops here.
Thanks again to all of you (and I am really glad Sandra decided to stay! ! !) ,
(3/16/2005 4:45:00 AM)
| Read 1 reply
All credit for starting the discussion should be given to Ulrike. Thanks again: -)
I like Michaels suggestion of a modified rating sys, perhaps based on 'Good' or 'needs review'....plus a constructive comment? We could approach PH and ask, if enough are of a similar mind?
all the best
(3/16/2005 2:52:00 AM)
| Read 3 replies
Well. I have to say 'Hail to the Elf'. She has done more than anyone else to keep me here and writing. So I would call her 'Elrod' in another life - Always, Gandolf.Replies for this message:
(3/16/2005 6:40:00 AM)
i am glad you decided to stay! ulrike
(3/16/2005 4:28:00 AM)
Yes, Hail Ulrike Gerbig. She is a rare and welcomed talent.
Peter A. Crowther
(3/16/2005 3:30:00 AM)
I should say 'hail' to Ulrike Gerbig, too. She is the one who first suggested the use of this forum to help resolve the conflicts.
- Ulrike Gerbig (3/16/2005 6:40:00 AM) Post reply
(3/16/2005 1:32:00 AM)
| Read 1 reply
Hey. Lenchen Elf directed me here too, so please blame her if I say something when I don't really have anything to say. As to general comments on poemhunter, I think the site is great. It's amazing how many people take the time to actually read your poetry and it's nice to have a forum where your work is put alongside better poets (then you can steal their pictures and make yourself look famous!) I've had /almost/ my fair share of criticism (a little more might be due) , but there are so many generous, nice, and intelligent people here to converse with who appreciate and understand /some of/ what you're trying to do with your work/ Herbert ABABAB/- I also have to say that I find the site extremely addictive /spoon&flame/ and have increased my poetry output just so I can swing as often as I like /to annoy Poetry Hound/ (sorry 'bout that- sorry if I put on everything I write, but/ like the 80s song/ its my prerogative) . Concerning criticism and number rankings, I think it's mostly important to try and maintain your own opinion of your work and not let others persuade your mind otherwise (use the force!) - and just keep writing and trying to write well, however that comes across to you/ if it comes at all/ (is a good poem never written better than a bad poem written? /shared?) - There are many very talented writers here showing off and looking pretty- and some not so good writers to be sure trying to be beautiful (don't look at me when I say that) - What we all really want is to be musicians, I think/ J.C. & J.W./-but we're all still living in our middle-class homes/skulls/ I really appreciate all the stats and such which poemhunter provides- The top 500 hundred is also great (if meaningless- Silverstein before Bukowski not to mention ginsberg and Corso, come on! -but if any of us thinks we deserve to be on there it's just our erected egos- got to get published first/and die from massive head trauma/bullfight/shotgun/oven) and the overall database of published poets is an excellent, ready source, when you don't have anything else to read- What might be an interesting addition to poemhunter would be an amateur poet 500 so I could see Rich Hanson, Lenchen Elf, tiffany etters, Adrienne Barnathan, Saywell, and Sonya Broderick /Neddy too/in the nude/ get their well deserved recognition.
Farewell and adieu my fair spanish ladies- farewell and adieu my ladies of spain
(3/15/2005 6:58:00 PM)
As for me...
The ranking arena doesn't mean a thing, who am I to judge others innermost expression? No matter how we mold our message, tripe or treasure, there always is and always will be some fool ready to tear it down. It is the human condition. Call it envy or arrogance, it is the same animal! Different people interpret poems differently!
As for the comments arena...
Browsing through my own poems on this site, I see excessive extremes at both ends of the spectrum. I find the comments humorous, at the very least curious as a rule, they certainly don't sway my own opinion, and I am often puzzled by their intent anyway! People refrain from comment unless they are passionately driven to it, so we catch them either way. Status quo!
I do find the hits of certain interest. They may not neccessarily reflect the number of people who visit, but they do reflect interest. Whether this interest is truly appreciation or not, is irrelevant. It is exposure!
And as for the poetry terrorists who skunk about, attacking our poems seconds after being loaded on the site, I take their animosity as a huge compliment!
And the Top 500...