Poetics and Poetry Discussion

Anne Elliot Female, 20, United States (12/24/2011 10:10:00 PM)

It is said of australias leading erotic poet colin leslie dean that in the extract to his poem 'amore la mal incantare' below that quote
'With embarrassing cliches in each line'

so show your poetry scholarship and gives us the poems and lines where these cliches appear in poetry other than dean

start with these so called Clichés 'Cold like ice'. 'Soft languid tunes'. 'Melody sweet soft like babies feet' 'Dragonflies like maple leafs' 'butterflies with crows beaks'
'Enameled wings 'coral feet'
'Bejeweled forms' solid light float' in other poetry other than deans

if you cant back up your claims then stand convicted dishonesty

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Anne Elliot (12/25/2011 2:09:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
HAHAHAHA you say 'Hmm. I thought you said the poem was gothic. Now you say it is surrealistic. Either way, I think it is pretentious.'
see what i mean you cant work a poem out for yourself you need terms and jargon and be told
and who said surrealism and gothic cant go together
see what i mean you just cant understand deans poem for its originality
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- Gary Witt (12/25/2011 8:41:00 AM) Post reply
  Mr. Dean, you are the one who introduced the terms and jargon here. I merely pointed out some of the many reasons why I think the poem is not particularly good. I believe I understand the poem, ha ... more
Anne Elliot (12/25/2011 2:03:00 AM) Post reply
again
it was stated that every line is a cliche
so show poems and lines where these so called Clichés 'Cold like ice'. 'Soft languid tunes'. 'Melody sweet soft like babies feet' appear in other poetry other than deans
Anne Elliot (12/25/2011 2:01:00 AM) Post reply
you give a list of cliches found in deans poem
the accustation was
that every line was a cliche

so give us the lines and poems in which these cliche -it is stated -appear
A scented shroud smelling of hyacinths. A knock did roar. Fish-like. Jelly-like. Snake-like. Cow-like. Onyx “glowed.” Eyes cow-like burned me. Black as bees. Waxen hued. Breasts that are “fish-belly white.”
and
Dragonflies like maple leafs. (Of what possible use is this comparison?) Butterflies with crows beaks
Anne Elliot (12/25/2011 1:56:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
you say 'Now, there is another list I would like to provide you, of phrases used here that are simply meaningless. A scented shroud smelling of hyacinths. A knock did roar. Fish-like. Jelly-like. Snake-like. Cow-like. Onyx “glowed.” Eyes cow-like burned me. Black as bees. Waxen hued. Breasts that are “fish-belly white.” (That one presents a most peculiar visual, I must say.)

you call yourself a poet you cant even see the image these phrases conjure up let alone the import of it all those phrases are completely meaning full as an image of powerful surrealism
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- Gary Witt (12/25/2011 2:03:00 AM) Post reply
  Hmm. I thought you said the poem was gothic. Now you say it is surrealistic. Either way, I think it is pretentious. -G
Anne Elliot (12/25/2011 1:37:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
you ever heard of surrealism you say 'Dragonflies like maple leafs. (Of what possible use is this comparison?) Butterflies with crows beaks. (Ditto.) Coral feet. Bejeweled forms solid light float like bubbles. (Huh?) '

and you call yourself a poet

if those lines where in an acknowledged surrealist poem you would applaud
you cant even see the surrealism/nightmare of the poem

you are so locked in the canon of poetry you cant see anything/original any more
you need to be told what a poem is you cant even see it for yourself
Replies for this message:
- Gary Witt (12/25/2011 1:56:00 AM) Post reply
  So in other words, you are able to defend surrealism while condemning modernism? Interesting. I will grant you that the poem has a certain nightmarish quality to it. -G
Gary Witt (12/25/2011 12:50:00 AM) Post reply | Read 1 reply
Ms. Elliot, a cliché is a phrase or saying that is overused to the point that it has lost its meaning, impact, or effectiveness. It has become trite. One need not quote from poetry to demonstrate that a phrase or saying has become a cliché. A phrase becomes trite from general usage, whether in literature or elsewhere. Here is my list of clichés found in the poem you have posted:

Sweet sighs
Languid cries
Door flung wide
Perfumes sweet
A smile on her lips
White like moonlight
Lewd fires
“Cow like” eyes
Rosy red lips
Jet black
Velvety sheen
Breasts heave
Translucent light
Mournful moan
Painful groan
Caught my sight
Slimy slugs (is there any other kind?)
To my ears I hear
Soft languid tunes (perhaps as languid as the previous cries?)
Her eyes explored me
Her eyes implored me
Cold like ice
Languid snare (perhaps as languid as the previous cries and tunes?)
Cold stare
My love languidly said (perhaps as languidly as the previous cries and tunes?)
Soft as babies’ feet

Now, there is another list I would like to provide you, of phrases used here that are simply meaningless. A scented shroud smelling of hyacinths. A knock did roar. Fish-like. Jelly-like. Snake-like. Cow-like. Onyx “glowed.” Eyes cow-like burned me. Black as bees. Waxen hued. Breasts that are “fish-belly white.” (That one presents a most peculiar visual, I must say.) Betwixt those orbs. (She was wearing a necklace, big deal.) Dragonflies like maple leafs. (Of what possible use is this comparison?) Butterflies with crows beaks. (Ditto.) Coral feet. Bejeweled forms solid light float like bubbles. (Huh?)

The list goes on. As I said previously, this poem is simply not very good. It is mawkish, pretentious, and largely without meaning. It is gothic only in the sense that a woman in black lipstick calls herself a goth.

-G
Replies for this message:
- Gary Witt (12/25/2011 1:00:00 AM) Post reply
  I would only add that I do not believe for a moment that you are an 18 year old American female. So, if you want to talk about dishonesty, why don't we start there? -G

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