Kelly Kurt

Gold Star - 183,492 Points (1/14/1958 / Cedar Rapids Iowa)

Causality - Poem by Kelly Kurt

Free will's opponent
Philosopher's bane
What caused the first cause
Will drive one insane

Determine all motions
Forecast the forthcoming
With precision now state
The whole thing's mind-numbing

Can causality hold
With ethereal mind
Where the Newtonian
Models were deftly confined

Topic(s) of this poem: life, nature, philosophy, science

Poet's Notes about The Poem

In a closed system, if the position and vector are known for all particles at a given time, accurate predictions can be made for the state of that system at any moment in time, past or future. Of course our universe is not a closed system and the 'interference' of life, specifically conscious life, can change the state. However, free will is challanged by the assumption that our emergent property of consciousness is a quantum state in which the interactions that lead to it are causally bound and determined, eliminating choice. The first cause and its state are unknown. But the philosophic debate continues.

Comments about Causality by Kelly Kurt

  • Susan Williams (2/10/2016 11:58:00 PM)

    I am in awe of your philosophical bent and how you express it (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/11/2016 1:20:00 AM)

    I may just have too much time on my hands. : -)

    3 person liked.
    0 person did not like.
  • Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 10:45:00 PM)

    None of my replies have shown up for many comments here, and several comments from members haven't even shown up here for me to try to reply to. Must've overloaded the system.: -) So just let me say thank you now to everybody via this method if the problem doesn't get resolved. (Report) Reply

  • Jaishree Nair (2/10/2016 10:20:00 PM)

    Congrats on your poem being selected as the poem of the day..wonderful drop with philosophical thoughts on the still debated areas of universe and the state of matter.. (Report) Reply

  • Howard 'the motivational poet' Simon (2/10/2016 9:06:00 PM)

    Congrats in earning your poem being chosen for today. A powerful perspective is present in your poem that is both creative and compelling! (Report) Reply

  • (2/10/2016 7:48:00 PM)

    Thanks Kelly for your response. However this comment is for the most important thing that I forgot! My congratulations for having it featured as poem of the day. Better late than never! So congratulations! (Report) Reply

  • (2/10/2016 7:02:00 PM)

    ............wonderfully penned....mysteries of life, consciousness
    and the universe are most intriguing....leaving me perplexed ★
    (Report) Reply

  • Udaya R. Tennakoon (2/10/2016 4:59:00 PM)

    within a few words you light up for a deep and wise area of philosophy.. dear Kelly.. thanks for sharing (Report) Reply

  • (2/10/2016 3:49:00 PM)

    Very delicate and mysterious subject.
    Is the to be, what causes the effect?
    Is my understanding of this correct?
    A subject not easy to select
    Or to answer,
    Like so much in philosophy,
    It depends on the prankster.

    As usual you make us think
    With this very philo-poetic link
    Well merited poem of the day
    (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 4:18:00 PM)

    Thank you Sandra. The tide may have turned to where this part of the PH site will be to give current, contributing members their due.

  • Dimitrios Galanis (2/10/2016 1:26:00 PM)

    Your day's poem, dear Kelly, made me think again of the first greek philosophers who were poets and expressed their thoughts about the universe in verses.You tread upon their track.The theme which was the first moving entity was posed by philosophers of the late 6th and 5th cent. b.d.Then it was Aristotle who answered in his way the questions posed.I have not the qualifications needed for a participation in an in english conversation.I do admire you to deal with these problems in your poems. (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:51:00 PM)

    Thank you, Dimitrios. The language barrier is a frustrating one as I am sure you have much to say about many things that rudimentary English can not do justice

  • (2/10/2016 11:43:00 AM)

    No arguments from me, your views are brilliantly stated in this lovely poem and a lovely read.
    Congrats Kelly.
    (Report) Reply

    Loke Kok Yee (2/11/2016 3:17:00 AM)

    Having cataract++ problems, hope to sort out by April/May them I'll limp back to PH!

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:48:00 PM)

    Thank you my friend. I have not seen you around for a while and I miss your wit, intelligence and wisdom

  • Rajnish Manga (2/10/2016 10:58:00 AM)

    It has been a pleasure to read this poem. If we can put the divinity factor aside, the world goes according to the cause and effect and its chain relationships. Highly thought provoking.
    What caused the first cause / Will drive one insane / Can causality hold / With ethereal mind
    (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:47:00 PM)

    Yes, the divinity factor should be abandoned in favor of rational empiricism. I don't know is always preferable to inserting a magical stopgap.

  • Mohammed Asim Nehal (2/10/2016 10:43:00 AM)

    Superb.................Philosophy and science will have such cat and mouse game....Nice one Kelly...10++++ Good to see your poem featured in Poem Hunter......Congrats... (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:44:00 PM)

    Thank you my good friend, Mohammed. I look forward for your deserved spot in this place as well

  • (2/10/2016 10:33:00 AM)

    Lovely poem expressing deep philosophical point of views...of course debate never ends. As for free will, there are many influences upon that moment when the free will is executed. How far back do we go in accepting that influence? Could it not take you back to the causality and its influence? (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:43:00 PM)

    Indeed it could and does. What caused you to use the word, 'lovely' as the beginning of your comment. Did you think about thinking about the word? It just showed up, beyond your conscious will. Yes, Schone (German for lovely) didn't show up because it wasn't part of your current mind's system but Other adjectives were at your disposal. I am leaning towards humans having an intrinsic lack of free will even though I would like to think that I am responsible for my creativity

  • Jayatissa K. Liyanage (2/10/2016 9:38:00 AM)

    Can Philosophy and physics, rather science operate on common grounds? Quantum physics while seeing matter in the last form, being energy as denoted by MC2=E, which changes it's state very fast, in fact faster than light, making things impermanent. Basically, what quantum theory says is that fundamental particles are empty of inherent existence and exist in an undefined state of potentialities. They have no inherent existence from their own side and do not become 'real' until a mind interacts with them and gives them meaning.Lord Buddha in his teaching,2600 years back, very clearly showed that what we know as I, me, my etc are non-self, and what ever we see as things are impermanent. On these grounds, how a mind, which is impermanent could have a control over anything for that matter? I am too small to touch even boundaries of the kind of issue you raise here. It seems to have a great depth, which is far beyond our perception ranges I feel. It is mind blowing. What ever it may be, congratulations on your accomplishment, which is very deserving. (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:36:00 PM)

    Thank you my friend. The very fact that it is mind shatteringly complex and esoteric makes it just the kind of thing I like to spend time considering

  • (2/10/2016 9:16:00 AM)

    Wow, Kelly. Your deep philosophical thoughts always blow me away, and this poem is no exception. Congratulations on having it selected as poem of the day.
    You usually like your poems to be unrhymed, yet this one has some nice, gentle well-planned rhyme in it, plus the notes were wonderful.
    Fantastic job!
    (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:33:00 PM)

    Sometimes rhyme just seems right. I don't know the process used to select this poem out of my almost 800, but I was glad to be reminded of it myself. Thanks Kim

  • Nigel Norton (2/10/2016 8:57:00 AM)

    Liked the notes as much as the poem.....thank you (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:32:00 PM)

    Thanks, Nigel. I added the notes after I originally posted this nine months ago

  • (2/10/2016 7:12:00 AM)

    It's genious Kelly... I believe the universe is a closed system though and therefore predictable. Consciousness is not. I think consciousness is spirituality created in our dimension - which is saturated in an environment of unseen and fast moving neutrinos - which make up the physical world. There's no doubt that consciousness is the image of God and we were created in that image. (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:31:00 PM)

    I would argue the closed system status of the universe as a whole. As an agnostic atheist I put my energies into trying to discern empirical evidence when searching for truths about reality. The brain has more possible neural pathways than there are elementary particles in the universe but we are learning more every day

  • Brian Stafford (2/10/2016 6:51:00 AM)

    Congrats on poem of the day! An excellent choice, well written! (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:25:00 PM)

    Thank you, Brian. It is an older poem of mine but I am glad to have it showcased

  • Lyn Paul (2/10/2016 6:39:00 AM)

    Superb choice for todays poem. Answers to always be unknown. Thank you Kelly (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:23:00 PM)

    Thanks, Lyn. It seems that management is starting to show appreciation to the active members that keep this site 'alive'.

  • Jasbir Chatterjee (2/10/2016 5:42:00 AM)

    congrats on being poet of the day! I don't quite understand the technicalities, but I am quite sure that certain things will always remain beyond comprehension of human beings. (Report) Reply

    Kelly Kurt Kelly Kurt (2/10/2016 3:22:00 PM)

    We are such a young species and modern science is still only a few hundred years old. I'd like to think that eventually (If we don't destroy our world and ourselves) in several hundred or several tens of thousands of years, we will know the currently unknowable. I wish I could be around then.
    Thanks, Jasbir

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Poem Submitted: Friday, May 22, 2015

Poem Edited: Tuesday, February 9, 2016

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